Pavle
Beaumfs be like "born too late to explore the world 😢" does openstreetmap look complete to you? get working
Klay@mochabeau I agree, but I think when people say this, what they actually mean is "born too late to colonize land". Apparently the "american dream" is to be a landlord.
40796c19@nycki we all know the american dream has always been a lie but saying "i want to go somewhere that [the people i know about] haven't yet" is just a desire to learn more, no?
@nycki i have pondered this more and there is clearly some valorization of the 'explorers of old' and their actions since that's where much of the notion of world exploration came from, but i also heard someone say "i just think it means people want a vacation"
so yeah lamenting the inability to explore '"undiscovered" lands' necessarily erases all the people who lived on those lands - which is why i had rephrased it earlier since i believe that most people are driven by curiosity and not colonialism, but that ignores the reality of historic explorers who met the people that lived in those places and still treated the land as if it were universally unknown and undiscovered
i do still think that when most people say it, it comes from a yearning for a different environment, for change, out of curiosity, but also @MossGrowsOnNormanRuins 's other responses also make a lot of sense - and on a slight tangent to that note, holy fuck golden visa buy-your-way-into-residency-or-citizenship programs are such blatant racist and colonial bullshit that make we want to tear down every single border and world government by hand
so yeah lamenting the inability to explore '"undiscovered" lands' necessarily erases all the people who lived on those lands - which is why i had rephrased it earlier since i believe that most people are driven by curiosity and not colonialism, but that ignores the reality of historic explorers who met the people that lived in those places and still treated the land as if it were universally unknown and undiscovered
i do still think that when most people say it, it comes from a yearning for a different environment, for change, out of curiosity, but also @MossGrowsOnNormanRuins 's other responses also make a lot of sense - and on a slight tangent to that note, holy fuck golden visa buy-your-way-into-residency-or-citizenship programs are such blatant racist and colonial bullshit that make we want to tear down every single border and world government by hand
caterpillar pilled@nycki @mochabeau i think most people saying this nowadays are actually thinking about joining the merchant navy or exploring antarctica, not doing localised genocide
@MossGrowsOnNormanRuins @mochabeau oh! that's a relief.
@nycki @mochabeau like, there's the implication that they eventually plan on settling down by the sea in some far of land with a local wife, and it feels a little bit icky passport bro-esque, but like 99/100 people using the phrase are definitely not thinking about gunning down native americans left right and centre à la John Wayne
linear cannon@mochabeau it's very rewarding, too
i love seeing maps in random apps or websites, and seeing the work that i personally put in to make my local area more accurate
it also has verifiably helped both bicyclists and delivery drivers in my area!
i love seeing maps in random apps or websites, and seeing the work that i personally put in to make my local area more accurate
it also has verifiably helped both bicyclists and delivery drivers in my area!
dzamieAs someone who occasionally uses overpass turbo (web-based API caller for osm) to try and find stuff from photos, there's so many buildings, amenities, road features, and so on which are kind of on there but not actually categorized.
I should get in the habit of marking stuff when I find it.
I should get in the habit of marking stuff when I find it.
disorderlyf@mochabeau I've been contemplating seeing how to add a bunch of local business info to OSM, but I'm worried I'm going to do that only for one business I confirm to be shuttered a few days later
eri 
@disorderlyf @mochabeau that will happen and the answer is it's fine. if someone else notices the place closed they can fix it or you can fix it the next time you're mapping around there
Amᵃᵖanda | map data witch@disorderlyf @mochabeau then go back and map it later!
Take it from me as a long time OSMer: It's OK if something closes the next day. There's loads of stale data in OSM, we keep working on it. And we'd rather have another active OSMer in the area (you!)
Harry Wood@amapanda @disorderlyf @mochabeau Yeah definitely. I sometimes worry about this with shabby shops in north London looking ambiguous as to whether or not they're still operating, but it's definitely better to have a row of shops added, and later we can figure out if one of them is a "disused:shop".
Shaun McDonald@harry_wood @amapanda @disorderlyf @mochabeau in the UK we also have FHRS data that can help to altert to shops that have changed our disappeared. This can be highlighted in a couple of online tools.
stephaniepixie 🏳️🌈@mochabeau We did the world a disservice by giving the impression we have to be the first or only one to see something for it to be worth exploring.
The world is gorgeous even if a billion people saw it before you.
The world is gorgeous even if a billion people saw it before you.
refraction 
@stephaniepixie @mochabeau only counts if you're white though, other people being there before doesn't count
@elexia Yeah, the whole notion of exploration in this sense reeks of colonization
Shaney@mochabeau imagine sailing off from somewhere and genuinely coming across an unmarked island somewhere. I would love that…! Imagine the view of the stars at night 🤩🌌
Latte macchiato 
@mochabeau use StreetComplete for this! It shows little quest markers above locations that lack info and make it very easy to enter it
Garbrys@privateger @mochabeau That app is so cool! How can you view the info that it adds, though? Can you see opening hours i.e. in OsmAnd?
@garbrys @mochabeau it submits it to OSM proper with your OSM account, so your data will make it into clients eventually
@privateger @mochabeau Been investigating a bit, the nicest app that uses OSM data seems to be MAPS.ME. Unlike OsmAnd and Magic Earth, it can give me a route to a place with more than one public transport segment. Hope more people start using StreetComplete too, it really is super simple and it's very smooth in the hands.
RTG-powered Vel@garbrys there are also Organic Maps and CoMaps - forks of MAPS.ME. i don't know how well the public transport routing works however, as they all seem to lack support for Moscow's public transport
@risc @privateger @mochabeau Organic Maps looks really cool. Public transport doesn't work for Buenos Aires either
@garbrys FYI CoMaps is a fork of Organic Maps that was created due to concerns with the project's management. also, it apparently has additional features.
@garbrys Yes! things you add via StreetComplete are stored in the OSM database, which is what all the apps & websites use.
You can see it within minutes if you explore the raw OSM data (e.g. with Overpass or Postpass). Apps like OSMAnd might only update once a month or something
Rihards Olups@amapanda @garbrys @privateger @mochabeau OsmAnd also has much more frequent updates, available by supporting devs financially or mapping frequently :)
Elischeva@garbrys @privateger @mochabeau
Des, you can view Opening hours in Osmand, tested for you.
@Elischeva91 @privateger @mochabeau Thanks. Turns out that most of the places around me have no data.
Alice@privateger @mochabeau i feel like i could get hopelessly addicted to this oh no
@privateger Another cool one is @everydoor. It's great for adding new shops etc.
Мя ��@amapanda yeah, but everydoor expects you to be a bit qualified in how OSM works, while StreetComplete suits better for complete beginners
It's a very nice tool, but more... advanced one. When you need more POI editing capabilities than StreetComplete overlays may offer, this is it
Otherwise, StreetComplete looks & works better, in my experience
TL;DR: install both, and go with SC
arfy 🐕 🌸@mochabeau why would i waste my time on that
moanos@arfy @mochabeau I'd argue it's not wasted time. You go outside, explore areas you otherwise wouldn't and you get to be part of a global effort to provide a free map for everyone. This is not only good for individuals but also important for emergency services, e.g. firefighters use this in my country
怨霊redvelvet@mochabeau
it's called "urban exploration" just don't get caught, silly
it's called "urban exploration" just don't get caught, silly
CubeOfCheese@mochabeau yes! I get to feel like a cartographer! (I guess because I am)
fan boy 🪭@mochabeau
Actually it's very complete, for me
I'm down to just updating if the crosswalks are raised, curbs cut, and if the bus stop has a bench.
All things which anyone who uses the space already knows.
sounddrill 
@mochabeau okay I'm finally downloading #streetcomplete
I've been putting it off since #indiafoss 2025
Crylo@mochabeau filling businesses in on OSM is such a pain when shit is outdated by a decade
burn2theground@mochabeau im doing my part!
Job@mochabeau Also, I think Iain McGilchrist pretty much nailed the general problem with the underlying attitude:
"There's a fear that without novelty there is only banality; but the pay-off is that it is precisely the striving for novelty that leads to banality. We confuse novelty with newness. No one ever decided not to fall in love because it's been done before, or because its expressions are banal. They are both as old as the hills and completely fresh in every case of genuine love."