Since I wrote this, many have introduced me to movim, and it's pretty slick! I'm still experimenting, but I like a lot of what I see. Still missing moderation tools for groups, though.
Let me add that I am keenly aware of the cryptographic issues you are about to bring up about any of these options. I read and deeply respect the work of @soatok and others, and understand the concerns around OMEMO for XMPP, Matrix, etc.
Security is a balance between risk and value. I cannot decide for you what the right balance is, but I know from hard-won experience that building a community is about more than "perfect" security.
@mttaggart I have a voice chat plugin for Discourse, recently shared at https://meta.discourse.org/t/resenha-add-discord-style-voice-rooms-to-your-community/389056
The web nowadays is super powerful, we can cover a lot of Discord use cases with open tech.
That voice chat is also p2p and encrypted by the nature of WebRTC.
Hey everyone! Sharing Resenha, an experimental plugin that adds voice chat rooms directly into Discourse — no external apps, no media servers, just peer-to-peer voice in your sidebar. Try It Live 👉 https://discourse-on-a-pi5.falco.dev/ (Yes, it runs on a Raspberry Pi 5 — that’s how lightweight this is.) How It Works Click a room in the sidebar to join, click again to leave. All audio goes peer-to-peer via WebRTC — your Discourse server only handles signaling, never media. A defa...
@mttaggart
Other (interoperable!) XMPP clients, such as Cheogram, allow for moderation of individual messages in groups, though the disappeared messages may not disappear from all clients that have already received them.
most of Discord's power user moderation tools are reliant on third-party bots or demonstrably ineffective.
As an admin of a 3000+ user server, I strongly disagree. AutoMod is a lifesaver and I can't imagine running a public space without something equivalent.
@mttaggart ah yeah if you manage big communities that might be a problem. For my 25 friends it doesn't really matter.
I tried it when it was still revolt and really liked it, but never actually made the move
I agree the Discourse chat may not be first class. But it works. It's been around for many years now and the Discourse dev team has been using it for longer than that.
Additionally, even the forum side has a presence feature so that as you are typing a reply you can see that someone else is also typing. And if changes are made by someone to one of their posts it's updated for everyone.
So for me, the regular forum side is fully synchronous as far as I'm concerned.
Perhaps you could update the article to mention those things.
you seem to be very knowledgeable and fair about all these, but I so want the answer to be #matrix cause it could also theoretically do all our messaging and video chat and even POTS eventually. I feel like if we want the less techy to embrace our world, it can't be just about switching apps yet again, but also must at least offer the possibility of eliminating the need for other apps. IDK.
@mttaggart good list, but I don't think it's fair to Matrix today.
The CSAM attacks happened, but moderation tools have taken a big leap since. You can quite easily use a moderation bot that subscribes to public ban lists. This almost fully ends any generic spam.
Also you talk about matrix.org as "flagship server". Friends don't let friends use matrix.org. Use small/medium sized servers instead and you get better performance. Same applies to Mastodon - don't use mastodon.social, decentralize!
My main criticism would be the buggy mobile clients, and super slow migration from Element Classic to Element X. Element web/desktop are decent quality, but far from polished.
Oh and you don't even mention bridges. Other alternatives don't even try to support them. Bridges are a key feature.
The CSAM attacks happened, but moderation tools have taken a big leap since.
I would appreciate links to these new resources. Last I saw, Draupnir was still very much inadequate.
As for server choice, I think Mastodon itself is evidence of what a fussy server selection process can do to adoption.
This reply is written from the perspective of a computer enthusiast. Probably a volunteer sysadmin/self hoster—like me. We cannot be the target for a general alternative.
@mttaggart for example etke.cc offers a public draupnir instance: https://etke.cc/help/bots/draupnir/
That combined with good policy lists should be quite good against spam. Of course targeted attacks are harder to block.
Also I think I heard that in FOSDEM Element said that there will be some kind of server chooser at last.. IMO using matrix.org as default has been a bad choice. Of course a curated list of servers makes a handful of new problems.
Currently a list of open servers can be found at https://servers.joinmatrix.org/
@mttaggart from rocket.chat's front page:
"AI-powered conversations
Automate the busywork, surface the right insights instantly, and keep your teams to drive
operational success."
@mttaggart You had me (discourse mangler/wrangler) at the opening meme.
Be more distracted.
If Discord gets a 4/5 for functionality then something is fucked up, it's an appallingly bad piece of software that gets in the way more than anything else. It's a disaster.
I would rather use phpBB and an IRC server for chat.
It's been a year since I invited Americans to join us in a pledge to Share the American Dream: 1. Support organizations you feel are effectively helping those most in need across America right now. 2. Within the next five years, also contribute public dedications of time or funds towards
@mttaggart one major concern I have with Discourse is how loudly pro-AI they are. Billing OpenAI as a major customer, pushing for "AI leaders", and their AI bot integration
That's probably worth reevaluating their security over
I'm on a Discourse forum that is very anit-AI. All AI features are behind an admin switch. I agree the devs are super pro-ai. But they are keeping is siloed.
@mttaggart
Did you check this one too?
@mttaggart a list of the ones you rejected (and why) at the bottom of the article would be an excellent addition.
Roach
Taggart
Tero Hänninen
Falco
tehfishman
leberschnitzel
Tim Makarios
Movim
Daniel Chateau 
(シャトー・ダニエル)
Jeff McNeill
Joe
RootWyrm 🇺🇦
Mike Siegel
Murdoc
Crankysec
Brett Haines
shom
Elephantidae
william.maggos
Ville 'cos' R
Bryan Redeagle 
SarahV
hackillu
maswan
Alan is @cogdog 🇨🇦
Pavel A. Samsonov
slash
Resuna
Jeff Atwood
airakose
Francesco P Lovergine 
Brendan Jones
Graham Perrin