Mastodawn

Sabredance Jan 25

"I think the majority of Americans (including left-wing voters) have not fully grasped the fact that our standing in the world will not recover in our lifetimes.
Even if we elected two full-term Democrats in a row, it wouldn't change the perception of the rest of the world. Because the rest of the world has discovered we do not have a system that prevents our nation from pivoting 180º toward authoritarianism when a madman is elected."

- Tony Rush

Hermannus Stegeman Jan 24

@VeroniqueB99 very true.
Sorry....

@hermannus 😔

Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸Jan 24

@VeroniqueB99 Collective memory lasts maybe 20 years, but firewalls will be put in place, there will be institional barriers long after we're all dead.

@hakona oh yeah... and then some. Ask the Germans.

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Jan 25

@VeroniqueB99 @hakona people in my country were/are still suspicious of the Germans decades after WW2, and this residual mistrust even helped lead to the misguided and counterproductive Brexit (as the EU was still irrationally viewed as a "German project")

Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸Jan 25

@vfrmedia I went to school near Colchester (6 years old) in 1969/70 . We used to play spitfires vs messerschmidts. @VeroniqueB99

Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸Jan 25

@vfrmedia Back home in Norway, 1970, it was cowboys and indians.
@VeroniqueB99

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Jan 25

@hakona @VeroniqueB99

we only stopped fighting WW2 in our heads around 1987-1989..

@vfrmedia @hakona 👍

Arnd Layer Jan 25

@VeroniqueB99
And - being a German myself - Nazi Germany totally lost the war and had to be rebuilt which should have helped building trust even though way too many nazis stayed in powerful positions.

I can’t imagine the US going through anything remotely as drastic.

Also, it’s not only the system that allowed this to happen. It’s also the voters that elected him. Those also aren’t going to go away. To me this is the biggest obstacle to rebuilding trust.

Nu Modular Jan 24

@hakona OTOH, how long has the overextended duopoly persisted?.. with no middle party?

Worse, more polls are showing less dem/rep party lines, than 'independent'. Yet how much weight does this neutered middle carry?

The fossil fuels industry corrupted the US, decades ago. The fact that most lay sole blame on crony politicians - who write policy for said corrupt industry - is proof positive that educational systems need a major evolution.

Speed demon 🇪🇺 🇳🇴🇺🇦🇵🇸Jan 24

@numodular The duopoly can only be ended by change in rules. A *long* process. Start with attainable goals, like some kind of ranked choice. Strategy to get there : mobilise for primaries,

oscarfalcon Jan 24

True statement.

MostlyTato Jan 24

@VeroniqueB99
Very true. Regardless of what they say and how they appease the tyrant, the fact is that no-one trusts the US anymore. They are regarded as a rogue nation; they may be treated with by the unscrupulous for profit, but they will never be trusted. The damage is done and can't be turned back.

Dark Phoenix 🇺🇦🇨🇦🇬🇱🇵🇦🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈Jan 24

@VeroniqueB99 WE are now the shithole country.

Pepperbike Jan 24

@Darkphoenix @VeroniqueB99 We are turning into a nation that needs a UN peace keeping mission.

noplasticshower Jan 24

@VeroniqueB99 whatever. I remain a citizen of planet earth first. And a human being second. And an American third.

The Polish Dispatch Jan 24

@VeroniqueB99 As one of earthlings of 'the rest of the world', if you undergo a full-blown communist revolution, with guillotines and seizing of means of production, I might reconsider.

Maier Amsden Jan 25

@ThePolishDispatch @VeroniqueB99 Don't hold your breath. Most of us are still way too comfy with all this.

skedarwarrior Jan 24

@VeroniqueB99 Probably...

Large Format Projectionist Jan 24

What Tony doesn't get--BIG TIME--is that the US's reputation has been shit for a long time, prob. >40 years. When I lived in overseas, local children were quick to point this out. In the 60's.

everything_bagel

@BenHM3 @VeroniqueB99 this isn’t about reputation, it’s about stability and reliability. Our reputation hasn’t mattered as much as our economic power and trade policies that propped up the entire modern order. That’s done. Not only are we not liked, but now we’ve also destroyed the thing that kept other countries willing to put up with our bullshit.

❄️SnowyIn🇨🇦❄️Jan 24

He is correct.

@VeroniqueB99
Who knows if Americans even vote again?
Trump once said: "If you vote for me, you'll never have to vote again!"

@gemini @VeroniqueB99

Yep, this has rung in my head ever since he said it.

Arthur van der Harg Jan 24

@VeroniqueB99 I wouldn’t say 180°. It’s not just the authoritarianism within the US, which is bad enough. But we in the West have found out that said madman can single-handedly make the US turn on longtime allies and betray them. That is an experience that many countries already had with the US, but now he’s done it to us. He’s blown up the trust we had in the US and we won’t forget. Because the next madman (after those two hypothetical two-term Democrats) could betray us again. Just like that.

Robin Barton Jan 24

@VeroniqueB99 Sadly, as a Canadian that is true. The anger is visceral and a strong feeling that we need to break free from usa. Sadly, the feeling is that change in usa will not happen and even if it does we have to never be vulnerable.

quinta - Stefano Quintarelli Jan 25

@VeroniqueB99
this (translate)
https://mastodon.uno/@quinta/115873642328939303

quinta - Stefano Quintarelli (@[email protected])

l'amministrazione Trump sta rivelando la fragilità strutturale dell'assetto istituzionale USA saranno necessarie profonde riforme prima che la comunità internazionale riacquisti il livello di fiducia precedente chissà se avverrano e in quanto tempo

Mastodon Uno Social - Italia

quinta - Stefano Quintarelli Jan 25

and this
https://mastodon.uno/@quinta/115873652530115138

quinta - Stefano Quintarelli (@[email protected])

gli attuali attori dell'amministrazione USA faranno l'impossibile per non cedere il potere. sanno che quando la legalità dovesse essere ristabilita gran parte di essi finirebbe in prigione

Mastodon Uno Social - Italia

The current actors in the US administration will do everything possible to avoid relinquishing power.

They know that when legality is restored, many of them will end up in prison.

OrionBelt©Jan 26

@VeroniqueB99 @quinta avranno fatto uno stage dal despota stagista genicida assassino che governa la "terra promessa" (da un dio mai mantenuta)!?😁😬🤐

The Trump administration is revealing the structural fragility of the US institutional framework.

Profound reforms will be necessary before the international community regains its previous level of trust.

Who knows if and when these reforms will happen.

@quinta 👍

@VeroniqueB99
It's true.... We really think you're shit. And, yes, it will last... One or two generations....

(Ps : We Europeans have already been through this before but don't worry , it seems that nowadays, most of our teenagers think "Gestapo" is the new Dubaï Chocolate fave's flavor).

zetabeta Jan 25

@VeroniqueB99
my point is not to say that both parties are equally bad.

even with democrats after trump and maga republicans, i don't expect giant change. u.s. system is more or less broken, and democrats can divert only some of it.

some days i feel that democrats are republican lite.

still, parties are not equally bad, difference exists or is it less worse.

thermonuclear small claims Jan 25

@VeroniqueB99 I mean, the rest of the world has thought this for decades ...

@VeroniqueB99 The Germans recovered rather quickly. We can do the same.

@VeroniqueB99 @lisp_1

Did they though?

Waitman Gobble Jan 25

In the USA the best way is to write your representative and let them know if things don't change next time they are up for election they won't have your vote. I recommend snail mail and keep it professional. I'm skeptical about Emails and online polls and i've worked in tech for 30 years.

Writing your senator is not likely to have an impact in my opinion. Representatives are your neighbors and do actually care.

@hello ...I'm not a big believer on any of this having any impact on what's going on in the US...

@VeroniqueB99 Also the fact that this man was elected at all... twice. Half the population has a screw loose and that may never be fixed.

Dying World 🔥🌎🔥Jan 25

@VeroniqueB99 It's easier to blow up a bridge than it is to rebuild it.

@DyingWorld 💯 👍

GutterPoetry Jan 25

Its not just the US. Corporations only behave well because the public would shun them if they behaved badly.

Same with politicians. If they don't have to worry about voters because they've brainwashed them into a cult, they do whatever the hell they want.

trump is stupid but has smart, evil people telling him how to dismantle the us govt, checks and balances etc. those people have vested interest in democracy being destroyed.

This can happen to any country.

pedro 🍉Jan 25

@GutterPoetry @VeroniqueB99 I know very few modern democracies whose president can just choose to do whatever they want and there are no consequences. This is a constitutional problem.

GutterPoetry Jan 25

@ubik @VeroniqueB99

The constitution was created on the assumption that voters would never elect someone like trump.

I think that true democracy has been gnawed away at over time by the obscenely rich and by corporations, so that people were vulnerable to a shyster like trump.

If the only options on the ballot are 'shit' and 'shitter', is that a real democracy?

If the media is full of pro-oligarch bias or conspiracy theories, how are people to correctly assess where to use their vote?

pedro 🍉Jan 25

@GutterPoetry @VeroniqueB99 when Trump was first elected in 2016, European centrists were 100% positive that fascism would never happen in the US because, despite the unlimited power the president is granted, there were checks and balances. I always thought checks and balances cannot work in a system where the president can just sign executive orders and bypass the parliament/congress. I guess I was right.

@ubik @GutterPoetry

It's not about Executive Orders... EO do not have force of law. Congress decides what will be law. It's the SYSTEM. That needs to burn to the ground and die before it can be rebuilt. Right now it's slowly asphyxiating...

GutterPoetry Jan 26

@VeroniqueB99 @ubik

Is that still true, in practice? trump issues hundreds of EO's, most of which are unchallenged. The ones which are challenged, will have the challenge overturned in his stacked supreme court. Or he will ignore judges orders. Most of what was 'the law' was upheld in a system which assumed that the rest of the system was functioning properly. trump breaks the system purposefully so that it can't stop him, can't hold anyone to account. Even murderers.
USA is lawless now

@GutterPoetry @ubik

Yes it is. The law hasn't changed. As it stands 100% of his EOs would be instantly erased by the next (dem) potus.

GutterPoetry Jan 27

@VeroniqueB99 @ubik

trump's already saying that the midterm elections shouldn't be held, which in trump-world means that he won't hold them if at all possible. He's just testing the maga base to make sure they won't dump him over it and the maga fake news peddlers will have the bogus justifications prepared.

I don't think the elections will be held, or they won't be fair. trump is a putin wannabe. russia has never had a free and fair election - look at what putin did to navalny.

@GutterPoetry @ubik

Yes, too many people are asleep at the wheel. For ex: Citizens United would never have passed in other countries.

From there the error just kept on getting bigger. Since the US is one of the only country that's never been occupied, they have no idea what that entails. Different story.

@GutterPoetry This is not correct. No system in Europe has the makeup of that in the US. In cannot happen (this way - I'm not saying fascism can't take place, since for ex. Hitler was elected) like the way it's happening in the US
If 1/10th of what has taken place in the US took place in France (say just what happened in Minnesota), i 24h the country would be on fire until things changed. Same with a number of other European countries. The US is brainwashed, weak and compliant rn.

GutterPoetry Jan 26

France had the gilets jaunes (yellow vests) protesting everyday for years...the media ignored the huge ongoing protests.

The UK will elect Nigel Farage as leader - a racist grifter who will eagerly do the fascist bidding of trump, musk etc. He may be inconvenienced by our political system, but will do his worst - we'll see. There are already extreme right wing brownshirt groups *training* here. Some tried to burn asylum seekers alive last summer, with massive public support.

Olivier Burnier Jan 25

@VeroniqueB99 You are right.
Europe is now aware that the US can go very wrong and that we have to live with this fact and act accordingly.
As a 57 years old French man I would never have imagine to live in a world where we would have to be scared America invading a European territory.

@OlivierBurnier ...you got company there...🙄

@VeroniqueB99
Sure, its possible. It didn't take that long for the last big Antifa success to be forgotten, though there are still a few WW2 veterans living.

If you change your constitution, institute an electoral system designed to produce weak government, and partition the country for a few decades, you should be fine.

thefathippy Jan 25

Most of the world's peoples (if not governments in the pockets of the same oligarchs) have viewed US international activities with skepticism, if not deep distrust, for decades.

It's just worse now.