Mastodawn

Hey Mastodon I ned some help.

An increasing number if people in my life are becoming #conspiracytheory nutjobs and I don't know what to do.

At first it was just one or two peripheral friends so I could just stop talking with them or ignore the crazy stuff they said, but now its closer friends and family.
Does anyone have any good resources or tips on how to handle this?

I know a fair bit about the theories as I have been interested in them for a long time, but it has been from a debunking POV since nothing ever seems solid enough to warrant any belief.
This knowledge doesn't seem to be relevant though since "you can't reason someone out of an oppinion they didn't reason themselves into".

I would appreciate any and all input on deprogramming techniques, support groups etc.
Feel free to boost for visibility.

Thanks in advance 😚

@bno this might help in terms of strategies https://www.inverse.com/culture/how-to-talk-to-conspiracy-theorists Psychologists seem to agree that people gravitate towards conspiracy theories as they feel a lack of control and the conspiracy theories provide them with answers. So really it's unpicking that feeling of lack of control, addressing things that are feasible to control and engaging from a position that it is scary and uncomfortable to feel out of control.

I’ve been talking to conspiracy theorists for 20 years. Here are my six rules of engagement.

Coronavirus conspiracy theories fuel anti-vaccination protests.

Inverse

Zumbador Dec 26

I've been seeing a lot of people writing about this, probably because it's an increasing problem.

Most people recommend a respectful approach like this https://chrisguillebeau.com/how-to-talk-to-someone-who-believes-a-conspiracy-theory

I think the advice about acknowledging the emotional dimension is particularly important. Also, being aware of the difference in core beliefs. It's difficult to communicate with someone if you value the core beliefs of, for example, honesty and justice, and you assume they do too - but in fact their core beliefs are to honor purity, obedience and loyalty.

@Zumbador @lritter @alexisbushnell @fak

Thanks for your answers. Its really appreciated 😚😚
Looks like I have a bunch of reading to do this afternoon as well as some challenges to my patience and empathy in the future 😂

Alexis Bushnell Dec 26

@bno @Zumbador @lritter @fak honestly, strength & solidarity to you for trying. We all need to be more willing to engage with those people in our lives if we want to improve things.

Alexis Bushnell Dec 26

@bno Philosophy Tube's video on antivaxxers digs into this from that specific angle and is based on research done with antivaxxers: https://youtu.be/Va0RCgbywGc?si=kKp07Lcm1gpOyKxN

As others have mentioned, it's often a response to feeling a lack of control in one's life. It can also be lack of community or feel excluded/mocked/unwanted in the groups you're a part of.
Conspiracy theories offer community and affirming "yes you're right" regardless of what you say and evidence, that is powerful.

1/3

Vaccines & Freedom | Philosophy Tube

YouTube

Alexis Bushnell Dec 26

@bno finding ways to connect with the emotions they're feeling & why they're going that way is important. Mocking or challenging the beliefs is only likely to push them further into them.
Asking them to explain their beliefs to you with genuine interest, offering genuine compassion, demonstrating that it's ok to change your mind, finding ways to connect with them on other things to give them that connection & support is powerful.

2/3

Alexis Bushnell Dec 26

@bno Not an expert & also very not good at this myself, so kudos to you, it is really hard.

3/3

official_verified

@bno @elduvelle Sadly, I fear this problem will be growing exponentially in the coming months and years, with the way commercial social media platforms are becoming increasingly designed for manipulation and addiction. And especially considering their current owners.

@Em0nM4stodon @bno @elduvelle All agreed, but I developed at least a slightly more satisfying way of dealing with such talking. I have been trying to be actually listening on an emotional level and to try to respond accordingly. I've heard myself saying stuff like (not literally, not to hurt someone) "So are you afraid that someone close to you develops autism because of a vaccine. I can imagine that is scary." You don't need to add "I don't think there is a reason to be afraid". The person knows this, and is just happy that you heard them. And you didn't say anything that misfits your own beliefs, staying true to yourself.

El Duvelle Dec 26

@gilles
What is the point of saying this though, if it doesn't even challenge their beliefs? Is it just about keeping everyone in their comfort zone? Have you seen people change their minds after this kind of non adversarial conversation?

(Genuinely trying to figure out the best way to do this, whether it is for conspiracy theories or racist / transphobic comments and the like, which I think are quite similar on some level)

@Em0nM4stodon @bno

@elduvelle @Em0nM4stodon @bno Well, first: you may indeed not change their mind, but at least you both can feel ok. Second, I like to believe that what a person is actually looking for is "being heard". That box checked, they may loosen up, allowing them to maybe consider a different view. Pretty sure this has a higher success rate convincing a conspiracist than vigorously arguing with logic. (As I used to do)

Arianne B Dec 26

@elduvelle @gilles @Em0nM4stodon @bno For me the benefit of that approach is that I am able to stay in relation with them a little longer.

Also sometimes when a tense/anxious/scared/angry person feels heard or seen or validated they will relax a bit - as other posters are saying, it can be helpful to attend to the person's emotions rather than their ideas/position. If they do relax it can open up space in them for other things e.g. what's important to me. But for sure this doesn't always happen - depends on what's going on for them.

El Duvelle Dec 26

@adb @gilles @Em0nM4stodon @bno

I guess I would like to know how often the "soft" approach changes the person's mind vs directly confronting their ideas. I don't see how the former can work if they are not exposed to alternative ideas, keep reading the propaganda and keep being validated by their friends and family...

Arianne B Dec 31

@elduvelle @gilles @Em0nM4stodon @bno Well for me the soft approach doesn't change the person's mind, and it's not intended to. Rather, it's intended to soften their defences and perhaps see themself or what they're doing or believing or saying in a slightly different way.

I reckon most bigoted ppl are pretty scared by alternative ideas cos those ideas threaten them in some way. And they will frequently see specific sorts of ppl as representing those scary ideas e.g. queer ppl, POC, disabled ppl, etc etc. Hence they feel an impulse to defend themself from the scary ppl/ideas/possibilities in life by attacking their representatives or attacking the ideas directly. Attack is a common form of defence.

1/2

Arianne B Dec 31

@elduvelle @gilles @Em0nM4stodon @bno

2/2

By me validating what they're feeling - just validating the feeling directly as something they're experiencing, and validating it in a way that indicates to them that for me it's perfectly valid to feel that - this demonstrates to the person a new way to relate to what they are experiencing, cos I'm indicating I'm not fazed by what they're feeling, and what they're feeling is perfectly ok. They might shift to "Oh it's just ok for me to feel that - I don't have to make up a story about bad ppl or enemies or whatever in order to justify feeling it."

Like I say, this def does NOT always work! And it has a much higher chance of success in a continuing relshp e.g. with a neighbour or family member or work colleague.

I try this approach when I get sick of beating my head against the brick wall of trying to change the minds of ppl who resist that.

2/2

Mugita Sokio Dec 26

@Em0nM4stodon @bno Y'all might want to ask this numerologist how conspiracies work. Myself and my producer, Neigsendoig, can verify something basic using numerology in a moment or two.

Yes, we're numerologists by hobby, and I've actually done some on a recent passing (of which I got downvoted to hell on Lemmy for, because they knew my evidence was onto something).

Joe Wynne 🌻🚗⛰️Dec 26

Sorry you have to deal with this like so many of us. This might help.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult?msockid=0b2074f3567e6d293f3c62d657906c5e

The Definitive Guide to Helping People Trapped in a Cult

Is a friend or family member under the influence of a destructive cult and you want to help them? Read on to learn some proven, helpful techniques to help those trapped in a cult.

Psychology Today

Gordon Inggs Dec 26

@bno I'm sorry, it's a tough place to be.

A little out there, but it's something that LLMs are apparently good at helping with - https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/10/30/1126471/chatbots-are-surprisingly-effective-at-debunking-conspiracy-theories

Chatbots are surprisingly effective at debunking conspiracy theories

Turns out many believers do respond positively when presented with the right evidence and arguments.

MIT Technology Review

@bno I empathize with this.

You won't fix them by asking challenging questions but better to ask than to be silent. I try to word the questions so it sounds like I am sympathetic / supportive of them and I get more mileage out of them, but even then it is like arguing with a blue whale about what snow looks like on a mountain.

All conspiracies have similar cult-like language hooks to help do in-group and out-group sorting - I try to avoid using them and actively reject learning them if the people try to teach me.

There's a contradiction between those two things that makes it difficult to work with.

coldclimate Dec 26

@bno sending all my best wishes. I am in the same boat and will read replies with interest

Justin Derrick Dec 26

@bno As much as I admire the attempt, I will warn you that some people are irrecoverably lost -- the comforting lies and pretend-wisdom are just too alluring compared to the bitter truth of reality.

Despite trying to dispel the nonsense she kept spouting for nearly a year, I ultimately had to go to court to get my mother to agree to vaccinate her mother (my grandmother, whom we were both responsible for in the Power of Attorney) and it ended our relationship.

My friends have all said it was so sad, but for me, it boiled down to the fact that she wasn't the same person I'd known all my life. I mourned the loss of who she was, but acknowledged that I'd never befriend the person she had become. The side effect of this realization was an immediate and dramatic improvement in my mental health.

I'm not suggesting you not try to get through to them -- I'm just advising that you should be prepared to cut ties if you're not successful and it harms your own mental health.

ifrauding Dec 26

@bno
I don't have linkable sources handy, but have accumulated the possible options:
- Affirm people you like about your feelings towards them and how you want to keep them close, but that some topics make this harder now.
- If you get in an argument, don't counter their points, but add something they haven't mentioned (and what they hopefully don't know). This gives them a possible way out of the rabbit hole, if they follow up in conversation or start reading.

1/2

ifrauding Dec 26

@bno
2/2
- Some people don't believe the cospiracies they tell, they just found out that sticking to obvious bullshit gives them power* and so they decide to be edgy™... errm... I mean "alternative" and "not mainstream".

*Control about: the narrative, the people who are allowed to speak to them about other/normal topics, the character they show.

Lance, Enjoying Copious Pollen Dec 26

@bno I'm a lousy example of how to do it, but you might find insight from David McRaney's book, "How Minds Change." It incorporates a lot of research and anecdotal insights on the topic. It's especially relevant to conspiracy theories.

@bno @kravietz The Knitting Cult Lady has been recommended to me. https://www.youtube.com/@KnittingCultLady/videos

This professor at Antioch University has a few good episodes on cults and religious abuse: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychologyInSeattle

Knitting Cult Lady

I’m Daniella, a scholar of cults, extreme groups, and extremely bad leadership. I was born three generations into the notorious sex cult, the children of God, and after my escape, and getting an education, I commissioned into the US Army. My first book, Uncultured, is about the parallels I found. I have a masters degree in organizational psychology from Harvard, and I am currently writing a second book called the Culting of America. But really, I’m just here educating people about cults, coercive, control, leadership demagogy, and how cult tactics, techniques and procedures show up in all kinds of groups that we don’t call “cults“

YouTube

Bakunin Boys Dec 28

@bno to add to what others are suggesting, you have to think of conspiracy as a puzzle in front of them that they need to solve and are in the process of solving. That need is emational. The conspiracy theory is really attractive because it looks like a solution. Often they chat to you because they want to test their opinions against the puzzle. The worst thing you can do is say the puzzle is not worth solving, but something really helpful is to give them a piece which is "extremely true"; something they cannot deny technically or emotionally. You'll know this because you know them as people. When you give them this puzzle piece, it's a confounding piece for conspiracy to enter because conspiracy needs a blank slate so to speak. Enough of these pieces and the conspiracy cannot hold, but the need to put pieces together is important still, so you need to have some understanding of the need to be able to fill it.

Unfortunately, you probably also believe a bunch of stuff that isn't true (eg most economics) and you need to confront that too. Solve the puzzle together.

@bno
I hope you find success in the tools suggested here. In the meantime, an approach that has kept me sane is setting boundaries. I have a relative who consumes MAGA talking points all day every day. I cannot compete with that. However, when he tries to confront me with bullshit, I say I'm happy to chat with him, but not about that. I've stuck to my guns and he mostly sticks to neutral topics now.