Mastodawn

goomba 🇨🇦Dec 8

via Hackernews. It really is comical the lengths to which companies will go to avoid being contacted by their customers.

What the fuck is a ‘fuck off contact page?’

"A “fuck off contact page” is what a company throws together when they actually don’t want anyone to contact them at all. They are usually found on the websites of million or billion dollar companies, likely Software-as-a-service (SaaS) companies that are trying to reduce the amount of money they spend on support by carefully hiding the real support channels behind login walls. These companies tend to offer multiple tiers of support, with enterprise customers having a customer success manager who they can call on this ancient device we call phones, whereas the lower-paying customers may have to wrangle various in-app ticket mechanisms. If you solve your own problem by reading the knowledge base, then this is a win for the company. They don’t want to hear from you, they want you to fuck off."

https://www.nicchan.me/blog/the-f-off-contact-page/

The f*** off contact page - Nic Chan

How to get people to NOT contact you

BrianKrebs Dec 8

By extension, a lot of these same companies with "fuck off" contact pages tend to also hide how to get in touch with them if you're a reporter, directing all inquiries to a generic address like info@ and omitting any email addresses or phone numbers from press releases.

@briankrebs I just ran into this trying to figure out hiya.com

Ironically, because our corporate outbound phone number is registered as spam, preventing us from contacting our customers.

The solution to this problem is supposedly a company with a "Fuck off contact page"

@Catelli @briankrebs in my experience most companies outbound semi automated dialing services are spam operations. I get maybe low single digit numbers of inbound calls from companies a year that I actually authorized. it’s quite shocking now to answer a call from an unknown number and it actually be useful.

@dplattsf @briankrebs We don't semi-automate any calls. All of our calls are from people. (We also don't call the general public, we're not in that space, we're an industrial supplier to companies.)

@Catelli @briankrebs I think unfortunately a lot of the dialing services share outgoing numbers with disreputable organizations. Even sales people who feel like you should answer their call and onus is on you to opt out. Hiya is quite useful, but sometimes the phone numbers are recycled among bad actors unfortunately

Kévin ⏚Dec 8

@dplattsf @Catelli @briankrebs this can happen regularly, most enterprise voip providers resell Twilio’s access and number pool. Those numbers can have been assigned to a number of other resellers, some less reputable than others.

These services also recycle numbers more rapidly which increases the chances of getting a dirty number.

I’ve even received numbers recycled mid campaign, so you can imagine 400 of not my client calls blowing up a clients line

@kc @dplattsf @briankrebs As far as I know, we've had this same outbound number for over a decade. It's our office number, and it's our phone system. I'm not certain because I don't know how the pool of lines was setup (or if it's been changed) but this is is just a traditional office number for a facility that has been around since before the internet and VoIP. Hell, since before cell phones. I was just trying to register our number with our firm as was suggested as a solution to the "marked as spam" problem.

@kc @dplattsf @briankrebs All beside the point really. I just found it hilariously good timing to read that post about "fuck off contact" pages as I just experienced it within this context. I can't even talk to them to find out if their service applies to our situation.

@Catelli @briankrebs @kc I think one of the quiet victims of that kind of thinking is product quality. There are actual people out there who could help you improve your service and generate more revenue, but they have no way of reaching you.

@kc @briankrebs @Catelli twitter once upon a time served as a back up customer service portal, but those days are long gone

Kévin ⏚Dec 8

@dplattsf @briankrebs @Catelli I remember the days, twitter contacts were always the worst

@Catelli @kc @briankrebs actually found the opposite - no point contacting airline support line but @ their social media account with a complaint and they would call you (fun till all the spam bots piled on and started reaching out to „help“ you) but for a brief moment in time, public shame got the job done.

Kévin ⏚Dec 8

@dplattsf @Catelli @briankrebs the classic chicken and egg though. Staffing phone lines is an art and also very expensive if you don’t know what you’re doing (basically every startup ever), line must go up so it doesn’t happen, line never go up so they cut what’s left of the support staff.

Or my personal favourite « we have a chat » chat contacts are like three to eight times the length of a phone call but you can cut so many more corners

Kévin ⏚Dec 8

@Catelli @dplattsf @briankrebs in that case it’s quite likely that you got a classic number spoof. Also pretty regular occurrence unfortunately, we only just killed it off in France kind of, with a new law that prevents the presentation of certain phone numbers by a non-servicing provider

@briankrebs "We tried reaching out to XY inc. before publishing, but unfortunately no contact info could be found."

@briankrebs came here to say this. sometimes it's hard to even get the email address of a press contact. Even harder to get a non-bullshit answer, but one has to try.

Dr. Christopher Kunz Dec 8

@briankrebs ...and don't get me started about the existence of a security.txt.

@christopherkunz @briankrebs If you don't mind, I would like very much that you get started on the existence of "security.txt"

stephen ryner jr. 🦉Dec 8

@briankrebs journalists will never figure that out

MostlyTato Dec 8

@briankrebs
In my experience, most big organisations do this now. Phone numbers, for example, that are never answered from an outside line. They also seem to call using VOIP which claims to be from Nottingham when its actually a call centre in India, so if you look it up, it looks like a scam and promotes being blocked. Then they wonder why they can't contact you.

@briankrebs They also do not maintain a stable support or contact phone number, rotating it out monthly.

Raj 🇬🇧🇪🇺💻🖥(🌻🇺🇦;🇵🇸)Dec 9

@briankrebs Well, of course. They want reporters trotting out the guff they have fed them, not punctuating it with inconvenient questions or facts.

@briankrebs the problem is that companies outside of well-regulated places like #Germany are not obligated to even provide means of contact or even list their legal address!

BrianKrebs Dec 8

@kkarhan spot on! Is it only Germany that requires this, though? Aren't there other EU nations that do as well?

@briankrebs problemvis #Germany requires it for everyone and everything regulating all #media equal, thus those that comply are legally mandated to "Self-d0x" and there's rarely any punishment or enforcement, empowering abusers!

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Dec 8

@kkarhan @briankrebs it appears in UK on commercial websites using German software (and does even seem to get correctly completed!) - its not a legal requirement here but our consumer protection organisations such as Trading Standards encourage customers to look for the actual business address details.

A lot of businesses still try to hide them and whats worse is many of the small/independent businesses make it difficult to contact them directly (often because they are just someones side hustle with only a handful of people actually working and half the stuff is drop shipped from China anyway)

波鉄 (Hatetsu)Dec 8

@briankrebs @kkarhan The Impressum is a DACH (Germany, Austria, Switzerland) thing from what I recall… And yeah, as @kkarhan notes, it's messed up that it formally applies to personal websites, too. Nothing quite like centuries-old legal traditions intended for censorship…

@HaTetsu @briankrebs yes, and whilst the general idea is good, cuz #authorship = #copyright & #FreeSpeech ≠ #ConsequenceFreeSpeech, it only disadvantages those that abide the laws and empowers those that act disingeniously and maliciously!

Patrick Schmitz Dec 8

@briankrebs @kkarhan I though it was EU wide, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

At least here in the Netherlands it is required for a company to have contact information listed on their website.

@schmitzel76 @briankrebs in #Germany it's kinda mandatory and even #B2B-only companies do it to ease #DueDiligence by potential business partners (thus ain't subject to "consumer protection" laws)…

It is considered unprofessional to not have a legal address + 2 independent, non-proprietary means of direct communication reachable lited on site.

What is mandatory across the #EU is listing the #importer / compliance guarantor as per #WEEE…

@briankrebs That reminds me of the Proofpoint page that you get sent to when your mail server is IP banned by their "PDR" system. Most IPs seem to be banned by default via "PDR". On the "PDR" support page, it lets you file an appeal that leads to nothing but a submission confirmation message. The problem is never resolved. Community consensus on getting unbanned from sending email to Proofpoint customers involves finding a Proofpoint customer to file an appeal on your behalf through the real support portal which requires a special log in.

Proofpoint is one of the major reasons why running an email server is hella difficult these days.

Receipts: https://www.proofpoint.com/us/support-services/ip-blocked-faq

PDR IP Lookup - Frequently Asked Questions | Proofpoint US

PDR IP Lookup Frequently Asked Questions Contact Us There are some questions: Why am I being delayed or blocked? The IP you are reporting is delayed or blocked…

Proofpoint

Ray McCarthy Dec 8

@briankrebs
Also emails from companies you are a customer of for a contract that are no-replay.

IMO no-reply emails to someone that has an account with address, phone number and has bought or rented stuff is immoral and should be illegal.

Contacting any corporate / transnational type company is nearly impossible.

Even many government agencies are guilty. A phone number may have a half hour to one hour queue.

See https://xkcd.com/806/ or https://m.xkcd.com/806/

Tech Support

xkcd

Travis 'Nep' Smith Dec 8

@raymaccarthy truly the dream. 😴

Allpoints Dec 8

@briankrebs then there's the "fuck off with a rusty piece of rebar" page. It doesn't even have self-help documentation. Just a crappy AI slop bot.

Oliver Schönrock Dec 8

more recently , these pages tend to include a AI chatbot..

which is just a modern form of "Fuck off, and solve your own problem".

davidhanzlik Dec 8

@briankrebs this describes ServiceNow 'support' perfectly 🤣

Seachaint Dec 8

@briankrebs I used to have a LinkedIn account. Once, they nuked the account of my then-employer because of a petty dispute, and also locked every associated employee account.

I figured, fuck this, I'll delete. But without being allowed log in you can't exercise your option to delete, huh.

LinkedIn famously have _no_ support channel. None. There is no way to get human support, it is not a thing.

I finally had to pursue the option of "my account has been hacked", to get a human. They helped. 🧨

Billy Smith Dec 8

@seachaint @briankrebs

This lack of contact for LinkedIn started during their Beta.

I was working at one college when I got an email from the college principal who had just joined LinkedIn.

When he signed up, he gave them permission to copy his entire address book, and they then emailed everyone in his name.

The resulting tidal wave of Reply-To-All emails crashed the college's email system, but no-one from LinkedIn could be contacted about this. :D

Else, Someone Dec 8

@briankrebs
This is why we need court precedents for terminating SaaS&c contracts without notice.

Company hosts a "fuck off" page →you're free to ignore invoices

Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm)Dec 8

And then there is McMaster … something completely different.

The last paper copy I have of their catalog is 20 years old and over 3600 pages.

If they don’t have what you need you can email them and they will find out if they can get it.

When you call their phone number there is no phone tree, the very first thing you hear is a person asking “what part number?” followed by “how many?”

You can cancel an order not yet shipped by email

https://ruby.social/@stepheneb/115667885869914279

Stephen Bannasch (316 ppm) (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image I continue to be amazed at McMaster-Carr’s customer service! I messed up the threads on a lug stud on my partners 2006 Camry putting on snow tires so I planned to order a 12x1.5 metric thread-repairing die to clean up the threads. At 7F it’s too cold to replace the stud right now. Yesterday placed order; wrong part; sent email to cancel; placed second order; again wrong part; sent email to cancel; finally ordered correct part. Email from them this morning apologizing! https://www.mcmaster.com/product/2573A59

Ruby.social

@briankrebs Ex-CSM here...yup. It was tragic to see the development of this trend, as the company succumbs to the pressures of wall street.

Karel 'Clock' K.Dec 8

@briankrebs I think before buying a product or service (PoS), people should check whether the vendor is actually reasonably contactable. If not, boycott the PoS - it's a high risk of being scammed by being sold a defective PoS as a good one.

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Dec 8

@clock @briankrebs this is the actual advice from our consumer protection authorities and the anti-fraud unit of the Police in the UK...

Karel 'Clock' K.Dec 8

@vfrmedia @briankrebs Do you think it is fair from the consumer protection authorities and the anti-fraud unit of the Police in the UK to advice people to check whether the vendor is actually reasonably contactable before buying a product or service?

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Dec 8

@clock @briankrebs

It is as there have been a *lot* of fake/scam shop websites set up here, the Police in London are nicking people every few weeks for setting them up..

BrianKrebs Dec 8

@clock @vfrmedia I think it's reasonable for consumers to be wary of companies that make it difficult to contact them.

Karel 'Clock' K.Dec 8

@briankrebs I think "company" is not important here but a "businessperson". A sole proprietor can exhibit the same behaviour. I believe it's irrelevant in this case whether the businessperson is a physical person or a legal person.

Stuart Longland (VK4MSL)Dec 8

@briankrebs The latest variant on this theme is having an automated "support agent". Often a 2-bit clanker that can't understand 1-bit of conversation.

@briankrebs Stops being comical when it’s health insurance (the plague in health care). :(

TobiWanKenobi Dec 8

I also "like" the ones that tell you to contact them via email, without even providing any email addresses on their website.

Ruud Steltenpool Dec 8

@briankrebs noreply email addresses can be considered fuckoff addresses too

@briankrebs I’m sorry, but I will push back hard on this one.

There are not enough people on this planet to provide the levels of tech support required. That is the problem.

You need 20x L1 tech support asking “Have you tried turning it off and back on again?” For every L2 dealing with an actual problem.

I won’t deny that a significant chunk of that is because of the shit the companies are pushing out in the first place.

No one wants to do L1. Not even AI.

Wouter Verhelst Dec 9

@mattw
I've done L1 tech support while in college, can confirm.

People ask you to help fix their internet connection but you have to explain to them what 'right clicking' means, first. Nobody wants to do this.

Doesn't excuse not doing it. Nobody wants to call people to sell them things they don't need (BTDT too -- not proud of it, was desperate) yet they somehow find people. If they can do that, they can also find someone to answer a f***ing phone.
@briankrebs

not a martian, honest Dec 8

@briankrebs trying to find even just the location of their offices on there sometimes is a chore. I noticed I was better off to just search the net for that

ottawasteph 🕊️Dec 9

@briankrebs FAQs should be renamed FQs, amirite?

@briankrebs I ran into an IVR today like this.
Someone signs up for a T-Mobile reduced rate thing called Assurance wireless., but they used my email address by mistake.
I call their number to get them to fix it and it asks for my mobile number, but gives me a way to bypass.
2 layers deeper it asks again, I again bypass using the audible prompt.
It then says "Thanks for calling" and hangs up on me.

Matt Kirby Dec 11

@briankrebs Many companies are also installing fuck off bots before the fuck off contract page - which promise to help you but often send you round in circles (looking at you Amazon). I found a bot at Oura that is actually helpful: https://mattkirby.com/2025/12/10/not-the-f-off-bot/

Not the f*** off bot

Often AI powered chatbots frustrate customers – Oura’s chatbot is actually useful.

Matt Kirby