Mastodawn

I gotta say though, the ballot box being a wheelie bin was unexpected. I hope they don't confuse it with the garbage bins of the shops out front and empty the wrong one. 😂

🇺🇦🇪🇺 cweickhmann Oct 29

@notjustbikes That's a usual view in Germany too. Ingenuity.

caravantravellers 🌈Oct 29

@cweickhmann @notjustbikes

Nope. Only in some regional elections.

Ditol Oct 29

@caravantraveller @cweickhmann
Never encountered this in Germany myself.

🇺🇦🇪🇺 cweickhmann Oct 29

@caravantraveller @notjustbikes The regional election of Bundestagswahl 2025, seen in Hessen.

Marten Oct 29

@notjustbikes i think everybody is torn between finding it strangely disrespectful and satisfyingly pragmatic

Erik Oct 29

@notjustbikes You can sign up as a volunteer ballot worker or counter and you’ll see how thorough this is organised.

Noah Bailey Oct 29

@notjustbikes hah, you guys vote with a trashcan, while in Ontario we simply throw our votes in the trash.

Erik H.Oct 29

@notjustbikes My assumption is that these are voluminous, easy to move and cheap. Practicallity to the max.

Mike P Oct 29

@notjustbikes It gives a whole new meaning to the term "spoilt ballot", doesn't it?

賢進ジェンナ Oct 29

@notjustbikes Why reinvent the wheel? (No pun intended) If you can cut a slot in the top, you've got a ballot box. This one has the added benefit of capacity and mobility(The Nederlands greatest weakness and strength, respectively)

Enema Cowboy Oct 29

They need to make those bright yellow or a similar color.

Sets the tone...

I hate this.

People respond to product semantics. Though I applaud the continued use of a paper ballot over electronic voting (for refusing to trade integrity and transparency of the process for convenience) this sort of thing is a subtle form of negligence when there's low voter turnout.

Treating votes like something that should be moved in an armored car is how representative governments can have the same gravitas as self-serving monarchs. This is pennywise and poundfoolish.

@barcode @notjustbikes

Netherland used to use voting machines, but switched back to paper after a hacker campaign "wij vertrouwen stemcomputers niet" (we don't trust voting computers) proved that it was possible to detect what people voted.

Somehow that proved to be a more powerful argument than claiming that the votes could be manipulated. Voting secrecy is considered extremely important here (which is why I thought you're not allowed to make photos in the voting booth, but that's apparently more nuanced).

ReindeR Rustema Nov 10

@mcv @barcode @notjustbikes and to continue that historical recount. It was only three weeks before elections in 2006. The ballots could be printed, but where to find ballot boxes? The old ones were gone because the voting computer was the future.

They found these bins in use by big organisations for destroying confidential documents. When full these would be picked up by a specialised company for archive destruction.

Ready to use for ballots too! Cheap, practical, mass produced...

lnl Oct 29

@notjustbikes Amsterdam looks even funnier, it looks like they got built-in furniture but it's still the wheelie anyway

Arjen de Korte Oct 29

@notjustbikes No worries, the votes don't leave the premises in these bins. We empty them on the spot just after 21:00 and count the votes by party (centralized counting) or by individual (decentralized counting). The votes are then repacked in sealed bags and brought to the city hall by two who have been part of the counting, while the 'proces verbaal' is handed in by two other members of the polling station (I'm one of those two for a polling station).

Ulrik Nyman ⬡Oct 29

@notjustbikes what is the election system?

Do you just select one candidate or do you prioritise more than one?

raboof Oct 29

@UlrikNyman you select one

the votes are then first used to assign a number of 'seats' to 'parties' (there are 150 seats for 27 parties, some more serious than others). Which exact person you voted on then determines how the seats assigned to that party are filled.

Emil Jacobs - Collectifission Oct 29

@raboof @UlrikNyman In addition to this, the Dutch system is also fully proportional. There are 150 seats in Parliament, so you need 1/150th of the vote to get a seat. This is why we have so many parties in Parliament 😅

Roland Sivonen Oct 29

@UlrikNyman @notjustbikes the Netherlands use proportional representation, I would guess that you vote for one individual candidate and their list at the same time like in Finland. The seats are allocated to each list with the D'Hondt method and then within each list to the candidates with the most votes.

kainisenni Oct 29

@UlrikNyman @notjustbikes You select one. If that candidate gets more than 50% of the threshold they'll get priority in case the list they're on doesn't get enough votes to elect them by default
(This was a bit oversimplified)

@UlrikNyman @notjustbikes

One candidate, who belongs to a party. If the candidate doesn't meet the voting threshold for a seat (common for everybody except the handful most popular ones) , the votes go to the party and are assigned according to the party list. Candidates that do make the threshold (rare, but I'm hoping we can get Barbara Kathman elected through these preference votes) are guaranteed one of the seats for their party.

But it's mostly just proportional representation.

@mcv @notjustbikes @UlrikNyman

Vincent Tunru Oct 29

Note that candidates only need to get 25% of the votes required for a seat to be bumped up their party's list.

@VincentTunru @UlrikNyman @notjustbikes

Are you sure? But then it's possible for more candidates to reach that 25% than the party has seats.

I'm fairly sure it used to be 100%, but I can imagine they lowered the threshold in order to encourage this.

Vincent Tunru Oct 29

@mcv @notjustbikes @UlrikNyman Fairly sure, yes, see also https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_lijst#Nederland

(It also says the threshold used to be 50%, though it's 100% for the Senate.)

I think your scenario will only ever be hypothetical (that needs a really even split of votes), but I imagine they will then get sorted by the number of votes and then cut off by the party's number of seats.

Open lijst - Wikipedia

Chris Abbey Oct 29

@mcv @notjustbikes @UlrikNyman so does that mean a single race could have multiple candidates from the same party? So like if party x had 5 candidates, who each got 10% of the vote, then party x has 50% and beats the single candidate from party y who got 48% alone?

@cabbey @UlrikNyman @notjustbikes

It's proportional representation. If a party gets 50% of the vote, they get 50% of the seats. (This never happens; I think 34% in the early 1980s was the highest I've seen.)

Chris Abbey Oct 29

@mcv @notjustbikes @UlrikNyman nice. And that tells me a healthy multi party system too… not our broken duopoly.

@cabbey @mcv @notjustbikes

Ulrik Nyman ⬡Oct 29

But remember that the causation goes the other way.

You need to change the election system to brake out of the duopoly. Start a local grassroots organization for change of the election system. Get the left and right to agree on that election reform is the most important change.

Daniël Franke

Oct 29

@notjustbikes Yeah it's a bit funny, but it is nice to have actual choice, even if it is a bit... much.

@notjustbikes are you allowed to take pictures like this? That would technically be ilegal and void your vote in the UK. But I'm not sure if that's ever actually happened

root42 Oct 29

@NickAnEngineer Same in Germany. If you get caught, you have to fill out a new vote, without your camera...

Irina Oct 29

@NickAnEngineer @notjustbikes This looks like it was taken before colouring one circle red!

Irina Oct 29

@NickAnEngineer @notjustbikes They say explicitly that you're allowed to take pictures, provided (a) no other people are in the picture unasked and (b) it's not possible to see what you voted in the picture.

@NickAnEngineer read the alt text. It's not my photo.

Mark Rotteveel Oct 29

@NickAnEngineer @notjustbikes Yes, it is allowed: https://www.kiesraad.nl/onderwerpen/veelgestelde-vragen-tweede-kamerverkiezing/vraag-en-antwoord/mag-een-kiezer-een-foto-van-zijn-ingevulde-stembiljet-maken

Mag een kiezer een foto van zichzelf met zijn ingevulde stembiljet (stemfie) maken?

Ja, dat mag. Een stem kan niet achteraf ongeldig verklaard worden als de kiezer een stemfie heeft gemaakt.

Vincent Tunru Oct 29

@NickAnEngineer @notjustbikes Yes. The reason to prohibit it would be to prevent vote coercion, but the picture is not proof that you actually voted what's on the ballot, because you can ask for a new ballot. Thus, the photo does not void the secrecy of your vote.

DeepBlue V7.X Oct 29

@notjustbikes In a Bavarian election a while ago, the paper didn't even fit on the table, I could at best read half of it at once. Democracy really does require effort from all of us! But thank you for doing your part! :)

Edwin G.

Oct 29

@notjustbikes Congratulations 🎉

Matinoitunut Rutkustaja Oct 29

Interesting way.

In Finland there's about similar size voting list inside of a voting booth, but the ballot is just a small once folded piece of paper to write the candidate's number in

bluGill Oct 29

@matt_jarvin

@notjustbikes I would need disability assistance with that. I can fill in bubbles, (where I live it is draw a line between arrows), but I can't write numbers that I can be confident you can read.

Isn't it illegal to make photos inside the voting booth?

Mark Rotteveel Oct 29

@mcv @notjustbikes No, it isn't: https://www.kiesraad.nl/onderwerpen/veelgestelde-vragen-europees-parlementsverkiezing/vraag-en-antwoord/mag-een-kiezer-een-foto-van-zijn-ingevulde-stembiljet-maken (or the link for the Tweede Kamerverkiezing: https://www.kiesraad.nl/onderwerpen/veelgestelde-vragen-tweede-kamerverkiezing/vraag-en-antwoord/mag-een-kiezer-een-foto-van-zijn-ingevulde-stembiljet-maken)

Mag een kiezer een foto van zichzelf met zijn ingevulde stembiljet (stemfie) maken?

Ja, dat mag. Een stem kan niet achteraf ongeldig verklaard worden als de kiezer een stemfie heeft gemaakt.

Zenny Oct 29

@mcv @notjustbikes
Yes and no. Its illegal to make your vote identifiable. It's to prevent you to prove you voted in for someone specific.

This in turn makes it hard for votes to be bought and sold or for blackmailers to be certain.

@zentinel17 @notjustbikes

That's a subtle but important distinction. I knew there were restrictions, but I thought it was just a general ban.

@mcv read the alt text. It's not my photo, and it's very obviously not from this election.

jelte Oct 29

@notjustbikes heh, i see that I live in a more trusting city; my pencil wasn't attached with a chain

Daniel, aka. CactiChameleon9 Oct 29

@notjustbikes Every person has one of those each??!!

Roberto Piva Oct 29

@notjustbikes I don’t know about the Netherlands but here in Italy it is very illegal to even bring a camera inside a voting booth. Please check.

Other than that: congrats for becoming an European citizen! 🙂

@civitz it's not my photo, it's from Wikipedia.

Anneke Oct 29

@notjustbikes Gefeliciteerd!

Emil Jacobs - Collectifission Oct 29

@notjustbikes Welcome to the Netherlands!

Hans van Schoot Oct 29

@notjustbikes next time around you should ask for a region unlock, and come vote in Almere. They have a drive-trough stembureau, and yes: bikes (and bakfietsen) are allowed.

J—dV Oct 29

@notjustbikes They are experimenting with a smaller format in some municipalities (and for voting from abroad like I did) so the days of the newspaper ballot may be limited. Enjoy the experience while you can!

Leon Overweel Oct 29

@notjustbikes congrats and thanks for voting!