Lesley Carhart 
Cybersecurity Reddit is devolving between mid career IT with certs saying only degrees are getting hired and grads saying only certs and experience are getting hired - and I’m sorry but this is late stage capitalist hell, comrades. Only people with degrees plus experience and certs are getting hired
Of course when HR gets 400 qualified applicants for every entry level IT job they start cranking the requirement levers up to 11 in every area. There’s no financial incentive for them not to. Especially since the death of acknowledging talent from diverse backgrounds in America.
(Oh no not straight white dude nerds on Reddit not realizing their non traditional cybersecurity education is also diversity…)
Martin Seeger@hacks4pancakes I always tell people:
- You may be disabled and not even know it
- You may be part of a minority you never heard about
- You are a stranger nearly everywhere
Hubert Figuière@masek @hacks4pancakes also "you may be too old". ageism is rampant.
@hub @hacks4pancakes Yeah, something like:
- You will be "too old" very soon
Analog AI@masek @hub @hacks4pancakes I once had a boss once tell me "I was too old to learn new things." Same boss who told me my code was fixing too many bugs, was too different for the rest of the team to learn (!!!) (also, not true), and tried to give me a bad review and then dismiss me without an action plan. Found myself locked out one morning (without warning); after security checked into it for half an hour or so they reactivated my badge. Boss never mentioned it, I found out from HR (while they were deflecting complaints about said boss).
@Retreival9096 Pro tip: Mention your retirement often, ask them to plan for it (including replacement) and get them to dread it 😄.
Morgan ⚧️@Retreival9096 @masek @hub @hacks4pancakes fixing too many bugs??? Every tech company should be forced to hire you for as long as you wanna work on their stuff 😭
@raphaelmorgan @masek @hub @hacks4pancakes ... we (as in the group of engineers I was part of) were working on test programs. When ever the program I was working on would glitch, I would dig in and fix it (like getting a string from a test instrument, assuming it was "milliamps", so throw away the e-03 at the end ... which changed 200e-06 into 200mA instead of 0.2mA).
I found out (after I was out of the group) that the original code base was the boss's -- so implicitly I guess I was saying I found another mistake in his code. But so many people had been working on it since then that there was no way to tell who had made a mistake. And really, who doesn't make mistakes?
(We had a "revision management system", but the usage model was "always fork", rather than "keep a consistent base" -- because too many engineers couldn't stand the idea of someone changing THEIR code)
I tried to get better programming practices in place (as did others in the group), but the fourth level manager said "why are you proposing programming tools; you aren't programmers! [just people who work on programs 80% of the time]).
Well, enough venting for now ... that's more than 10 years in my past -- I've given them enough energy for today :smile:
🔥 this is fine@masek @hacks4pancakes you can get disabled at any point too. With no fault of your own. And that is so important to understand, yet so few do
@agathos I found "You may already be disabled and not now it" even more thought provoking. This usually leads to an inquiry and I tell the story that I was in my mid 20s when I learned that I lack stereoscopic vision. I have felt the negative effects, but attributed it to "being clumsy".
Björn ❄️ StarkimarmI was in my mid 40s when I realized that I may have ADHD (and got diagnosed), which explained so much of my struggles in university and at my job.
@Starkimarm They weren't great diagnosing ADHD and Autism/Asperger in the 70s 😄. They just hated you instead...
Yeah, especially if you did ok in school. Good grades = no problem, now quit complaining and conform ^^
vandorb12@agathos @masek @hacks4pancakes I have a take on this when I bring up disability with peers.
Your child needs to be held while you're doing a chore. You are now disabled because your arm is now unavailable to assist or be used for said chore. This is Temporary Disability or circumstantial disability.
Your child needs to be held while you're doing a chore. You are now disabled because your arm is now unavailable to assist or be used for said chore. This is Temporary Disability or circumstantial disability.
Thomas WodarekJust to add, if someone isn't disabled (yet), everyone is just a single bad day from being disabled
neoluddite@masek @hacks4pancakes And as I keep saying: "Everyone active in IT pre-dotcom boom has at least one diagnosable mental health condition"
Wendy Nather
Druid@hacks4pancakes not realizing is a key part of straight white dude culture
Ashe Dryden 🙆🏼♀️🐈🐈⬛@hacks4pancakes “it turns out we were the diversity all along”
pH_@hacks4pancakes “that wouldn’t happen to us” is the single biggest cognitive dissonance when it comes to cyber security and getting hired challenges of its own practitioners.
fellmoon 🏴@hacks4pancakes so we finally reached the state to do woodwork and growing own food instead of computers?...not sure I'm ready for this... Ok, still have a job that seems stable for now because Europe.
Jack Daniel (often offline)@hacks4pancakes and often for less than they are worth.
Crunchy@hacks4pancakes which is why, ironically, the federal government is (was, now) the best place to get started. Now it's 🤷
Cav@hacks4pancakes good thing I grew up poor on a farm and had to grow and build everything to survive. I think I'll be going back to that.
miguel@hacks4pancakes Only those with an inside connection get hired, regardless of degrees/certs/connections. Which has been the case for at least a decade now. Everyone else is just a thrown dart of luck.
Willa 
@hacks4pancakes Networking is a necessity now more than ever.
Shecky - Third Wheel@willasaywhat Even then it is still tough. Many people are not sure how to use their networks outside of asking if they can get their resume to the right people, and that is not always a guarantee, especially in larger companies unless it is the exact same manager that said person is under or it is that person's job req.
@siliconshecky There are no guarantees in this market, but everything you can do to stand out is another edge on the masses.
mav@hacks4pancakes
There's also a pretty significant amount of luck on top of those things. Which just proves your point all the more.
There's also a pretty significant amount of luck on top of those things. Which just proves your point all the more.
Ben Ramsey@hacks4pancakes It’s difficult for anyone in the tech industry, right now—unless you’re an expert in AI. All the layoffs have increased the competition for open positions, so companies have the upper hand in hiring negotiations for the first time in 2 decades.
Insecurity Princess 🌈💖🔥@hacks4pancakes
I get thousands of applications for roles that I'm hiring for, and I do not filter based on certifications nor degrees, and they don't weigh into my decision
And I'm still hiring to maintain a bell curve of experience levels on my teams (though I already filled my early career roles)
I understand that a lot of organizations are doing greedy nonsense but many managers are with me in sticking with healthy practices for hiring and team growth. Hiring only high experience people with certs and degrees is naive and just leaves incredibly talented people on the market for managers like me.
Nate Allen@hacks4pancakes it's so very sad but I can't recommend my own career to the next generations. Absolutely not. They are critical jobs, but ... just no. HVAC. Get certified on that.