#makeinghistory is here http://hamishcampbell.com/2021/01/11/makinghistory-a-omn-project/ it's a framework so you can put what every interface you like on top - this example is tweetdeck like clection of flows
Then #indymediaback is an example template https://unite.openworlds.info/indymedia/indymedia-reboot/wiki/DRAFT---contemporary-look-and-feel is a reboot of the looks and feel of 2008 internet updated, agen a template on top of the #OMN codebase.
Need to fix this WP install it keeps crashing, rebooting the server.
hahaha ๐
never mind, BUT... having a p2p app without the need to self host could make it a lot more inclusive and easy for anyone to participate ๐
also
https://unite.openworlds.info/indymedia/indymedia-reboot/wiki/DRAFT---contemporary-look-and-feel
looks really good.
i think i can build this.
it seems to have quite a few details and extra features.
if you i would start removing random features until onoy a blank page is left.. when would it become unusable?
like ... what would be the raw bare minimum that could still not be totally useless?
other features can be added in the future, bit just to make it as easy as possible to make something you can try
ON standby due to lack of crew - The idea is to keep it simple to push the control balance from the geek to the users. To use existing tools to build a open network then let the users decide how to use it. Simple. And if you look at the fedivers all this already exists.
@hamishcampbell ...including displayed information and metadata.
to have a super reduces ...kinda kids version of this
@serapath #makinghistory has the a simplified UX to indymedia but its pretty much the same project. With a newswire of objects, stories which are described clections of objects, linking back to the source objects. Then bolyon hashtag flows of objects and stories to move content to other instances.
Each object/story has an edit tail (history)
hashtags can be added and edited by anyone who has a login - this is a part of the tail (history)
yeah, it makes sense and should definitely get there... just wondering if a roadmap can break that down into from toys'r'us version of it, over a few milestones to the wireframes visible here... to eventually an actually fully fledged version of this, because even this wireframed version is quite a lot of work to build from scratch.
would be cool to build feature a after feature imho ....one feature at a time, calling each feature a milestone.
#makeinghistory roadmap for #dat test:
1) Single column listing objects - two instances that can post to each other - objects (text, image, links). Listing objects by last posted. Very basic.
2) then hashtag columns - mastodon has this, can mostly copy existing implementation.
3) add stories, simply another object that uses existing objects and links with context text. Think of this as a human story index. (a collective community account publishes this - how does this work)
4) We need to think about flows between instances, federating etc.
The desktop interface is tweetdeack like, think copying mastodon implementation.
The mobile interface is single column scroll to next object, or click on object for full screen then sideswipe to next object. Think "Tusky" mastodon android app
Every object has an edit (if you have a login), and editable hashtag and a comment option.
The edits are then passed across federation/trust flows, option 4)
@hamishcampbell thx. this sounds good.
if you could copy that into some sort of document to link to, i can try to see if i can prototype something like that.
it might take a bit until i finish my current pears/web bridge, but it seems to be a good first "test app" ๐
something like hackmd.io
so i have a link and you can maybe update the roadmap over time, e.g. adding a wireframe or whatever, but mainly so i have a link i can bookmark into my backlog ๐
@hamishcampbell thx. bookarked into my backlog.
will need some time before i get to it, but will get there ๐
Okay - a litle update. It's been ~1.5 years.
Here is a very early demo of running a p2p-news-app in a web browser.
It leverages hyperswarm-dht-relay in a similar fashion to nostr relays.
Hopefully this will soon be a lot more mature :-)
https://youtu.be/79pv95Yk8qE?si=SAP9zo-o3bS4xhQX&t=493
I know it does not yet look like the wireframes you originally shared.
i am not sure if you are familiar with `git`, but technically if you `git clone` the repository to download it and install nodejs from the official website, then run the simple commands described in the repository README file, it should work for you as well ๐
It should then work between you and anyone in the world who runs the same codebase ...all from your computer to theirs, no servers involved
@hamishcampbell Do you have a wiki or summary "cheat sheet" that includes all concepts and terms you describe in your blog articles?
Curious, because it might help align communication and start (re)using the same terms when refering to specific concepts :-)
I imagine it a bit like a "glossary" and maybe each term could also link to all blog articles that mention the term to add context.
If there is or will be such a thing, i'm definitely gonna read it and check for updates too ๐
You can find lots of definitions here to add to the wiki page https://hamishcampbell.com/?s=hashtag
Found wiki, but not been updated for a long time https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/Open-Media-Network/wiki/Jargon
@serapath for the #DAT stuff to become relevant we need to bridge to #ActivityPub https://hamishcampbell.com/building-bridges-instead-of-walls/ then we have the 2 paths and people can choose without isolation and alienation of the current pushing of the #geekproblem
Diversity is the bases of any ecological system, we need to treat tech in this wider view #KISS
@hamishcampbell yeah, we'll bridge it. the only issue with bridging is that bridges are centralized again and everyone on dat can talk to everyone else without a single point of failure, but for fediverse, everyone on dat goes through those bridges and if they go down.... the communication is interrupted... not between dat, but between fediverse and dat.
also, hacking a bridge means the hacker can probabpy impersonate everyone from fediverse to dat and the other way around.
@hamishcampbell kind of the same problem as hacking a mastodon instance allows a hacker to impersonate everyone who is registered on that instance to the rest of the world.
...but yeah... otherwise it works ๐
I am thinking of not a single bridge but federation, with both DAT and AP both running on the server sharing the same database of media objects. As the data flows around and is text and metadata is hugely redundantly stored (in public #4opens). Then one server being hacked can be rolled back out of the pool #KISS
https://hamishcampbell.com/the-omn-with-indymediaback-and-makeinghistory-are-paths/
the problem is, that fediverse MUST run in the cloud on servers operated by sysadmins... and dat or p2p runs only on end user devices.
fediverse instances cant talk to non-cloud user devices, such as laptops and phones, because of routers and firewalls, etc...
a fediverse instance cannot contact/query a p2p node on a phone or laptop, because it doesnt speak the p2p protocols able to do the distributed holepunching to do so
dat does not run on servers... of course, you CAN run some sort of p2p bots on servers and those can talk to fediverse, so those wpuld be bridges.
But vetter would be if fediverse would just integrate dat natively to avoid the need for it.
https://holesail.io would make that relatively easy. its built with dat as well
...but then again, thats something that is unlilely to happen, because fediverse ppl follow their own ideas. ...but we'll definitly get there.
First it woupd be cool to have a fully functional p2p-news-app with proper UI/UX ...and then maybe a bit of testing and then maybe integration with fediverse and if anyone likes the p2p experience, maybe they can even help lobby for funding, because it is tpugh to endlessly push this forward without any support
@serapath most of the mess and #blocking is based on ownership and control. We simply walk away from this mess by putting a class of media into the commons with the #4opens
And yes you would be right this #mainstreamin mess will fallow us eventually but by the time it catches up we might have changed society a bit to have a different path as outcome #KISS
https://hamishcampbell.com/the-omn-with-indymediaback-and-makeinghistory-are-paths/
Did a bit of work on the https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/Open-Media-Network/wiki/Jargon Will have a go at turning this into a sort story as an overview to the other 3 project stories.
@hamishcampbell thank you :-)
read through and for geek problem there is even a link to a blog post from terence eden, which i even happen to know. Most other hash tags dont have any blog posts linked to give more depth and context.
For example #OMN says "building networks, not silos" and more - its listed 6 times. Maybe grouping them all would help, but again linked blog post for some more depth might be even better.
#OGB is linked 3 times, but also here a bit shallow maybe without links
@serapath as far as I can see, they have removed most of the admin web #UI and replaced it with command line only, hope they put it back, or it's a #Geekproblem deadened, we do have to stop people making mess like this.
in a way i agree, but also, i dont think this will change.
most devs decided the command line is the place where they live and everything should be done there. spawning a UI for things can be optional, but anything that cpupd be done via UI must also work in the cli (command line interface) too. the cli is a lot easier to craft than a gui (graphical user interface).
i dont know many who deviate from that conception, but my personal take is everything shpuld atart with web
on any blank web page, you can always edit the url bar to add url params or you can press `ctrl+shift+i` to open the devtools whih include a javascript console to interqct with a web page based on executing javascript commands ...but in addition to it, you always have UI or you can add new UI via web extensions or bookmarklets or by copy/pasting JS into the devtools console.
So custom UI is one syep away, while on the traditional command line, custom UI is a heroic effort away
@serapath this is a #Geekproblem answer which I am talking about as the problem, so putting forward this as a solution is either misunderstanding or bad faith. Worth talking about this, It's why I bring it up #KISS
UPDATE: added to end of this article https://hamishcampbell.com/rebalance-by-shifting-focus-from-tools-to-cultures/
The unspoken question is: what would an activist social tech path be out of this #geekproblem mess making?
i am not saying its a solution, just that the web is more accessible than the command line and it is only a start
it lowers the barrier to "repair" and "customize" the tech. Instead of a shiny facade, it allows to get familiar with it using the web technologie
Its a balance between effort/sustainability and making it easier and more open for more to participate
The future will necessarily require more tech literacy as humanity advances, so how to make it as easy as possible?
Of course, developer tools, bookmarklets and the likes are not even close to solve any problem.The first adopters can use it to make it better, but starting with the web instead of the command line is a huge step forward.
a browser is less scary than a terminal.
also ppl regardless of background, have at some point in their life heard of HTML and maybe even touched it, maybe even CSS or JS.
...the same is not true for linux or the command line.
There need to be more steps to make it simpler and simpler and simpler. ...
...imho, we have all the tools activists might want already, but combining tools and using services - even if configurable - can only get one so far. its a lot of work to get done what some centralized platforms, such as facebook do with ease
we need to be smoother and better than the facebooks and thag requires participants to program it themselves ...starting with small copy pasted snippets/patches
@hamishcampbell and continuing with really sophisticated features.
co-creating a p2p platform and NOT leaving that to the few geeks who build it for the rest of all of us.
But it wont be an easy path to get there.
If we dont get there, i dont see a way to compete with the facebooks or youtubes
thats a lesson indymedia shpuld have learned imho
hamish campbell
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