Mastodawn

@WiteWulf I like me grass! Also animals and such

@stux you can happily graze cattle under solar farms, we see it a lot around here (Leicestershire, UK).

Christopher M0YNG Jul 9

@WiteWulf @stux yup, lift them up and let plants and animals use the space under. I'm sure I've seen research that the biodiversity of fields increased after Solar panels are installed

Titia Schuurman

@M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux yes, I've seen such studies too.

@titia @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux It's called agrivoltaics and it works together very well for livestock and for plants that don't like getting burned by too much son. For plants you prefer to grow and harvest by machine you can have them vertical and drive the harvesters between the rows.

Roasting House Coffee Jul 9

@ariaflame @titia @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux but not goats.

Apparently trials prove the obvious that they climb on the panels and break them

@roastinghouse @titia @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux Yes, I heard that about goats too. Or kick them if they're the vertical ones.

Nick Jul 10

@ariaflame @roastinghouse @titia @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux Goats are such NIMBYs.

@roastinghouse @ariaflame @titia @M0YNG @stux 🤣

Tattie Jul 10

@roastinghouse I'm sure breakthroughs will eventually be made in goatovoltaics 😌
@ariaflame @titia @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux

Jul 10

@Tattie @roastinghouse @ariaflame @titia @M0YNG @stux flexible elastic PV panels: solar trampolines for goats

You know it makes sense 😆

🙌

@WiteWulf I like me grass! Also animals and such

@stux you can happily graze cattle under solar farms, we see it a lot around here (Leicestershire, UK).

Christopher M0YNG Jul 9

@WiteWulf @stux yup, lift them up and let plants and animals use the space under. I'm sure I've seen research that the biodiversity of fields increased after Solar panels are installed

Titia Schuurman Jul 9

@M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux yes, I've seen such studies too.

Roasting House Coffee Jul 9

@ariaflame @titia @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux but not goats.

Apparently trials prove the obvious that they climb on the panels and break them

@roastinghouse @titia @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux Yes, I heard that about goats too. Or kick them if they're the vertical ones.

Nick Jul 10

@ariaflame @roastinghouse @titia @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux Goats are such NIMBYs.

@roastinghouse @ariaflame @titia @M0YNG @stux 🤣

Tattie Jul 10

@roastinghouse I'm sure breakthroughs will eventually be made in goatovoltaics 😌
@ariaflame @titia @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux

Jul 10

@Tattie @roastinghouse @ariaflame @titia @M0YNG @stux flexible elastic PV panels: solar trampolines for goats

You know it makes sense 😆

__Miguel_Jul 9

@M0YNG
If I remember correctly, having that setup also causes the panels to operate cooler, which means more longevity and more power output.
@WiteWulf @stux

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦Jul 9

https://reneweconomy.com.au/study-says-solar-can-reduce-moisture-loss-and-has-minimal-impact-on-grasslands/

This is apparently true.

I've also read (no reference) that wool yields from sheep grazed underneath went up?

Study says solar can reduce moisture loss and has minimal impact on grasslands

The study, which builds on previous research, could show the way forward for drought-prone Australia.

RenewEconomy

L⁂Rhodes Jul 9

@bytebro @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux It's worth pointing out that a great many fields are artificial carveouts from other sorts of biome, like forest or grassland. In some cases, building elevated solar panels returns a measure of shade that was lost when farmers clearcut the area.

But yes, by all means, but them over car parks, too.

Michael Bacon Jul 10

@bytebro @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux This can work but solar farms aren't always set up for grazing. But they should be, where appropriate.

@bytebro
https://reneweconomy.com.au/grazing-sheep-among-solar-panels-could-produce-higher-quality-wool-study-finds/

The_Sun Jul 10

Grazing sheep among solar panels could produce higher quality wool, study finds

The combination of solar farming and sheep grazing does not have a negative affect on wool production, and could even improve the quality of wool produced, new study finds.

RenewEconomy

Loafer Jul 11

@bytebro @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux Hey, everybody needs shade; And I mean everybody.

Zeborah Jul 11

@bytebro Yep, source for the improved quality wool is https://lightsourcebp.com/nz/news/wool-quality-and-sustainability-insights-from-lightsource-bps-wellington-solar-farm/

(Source is an interested party but still, it does seem plausible that sheep who can hang out under shelter when they want will be less stressed than those exposed constantly to the elements.)

Agrivoltaics seems to be a win for the plants, for the animals, and for the panel efficiency and output.

As for the carparks, how about we get proper public transport, then we can turn most of the carpark into parklands (while leaving just enough space for accessibility and deliveries and emergencies) and that will also be a win for everyone. ;-)

Wool quality and sustainability: Insights from Lightsource bp’s Wellington solar farm | Lightsource bp

Lightsource bp

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦Jul 11

@zeborah

Good link, thank you.

Phil Thane ✅Jul 11

@zeborah
Cows like shelter too. Also experiments show that many fruits grow better in partial shade and need less irrigation.
@bytebro @M0YNG @WiteWulf @stux

stux⚡Jul 9

@M0YNG @WiteWulf If it;s helping... 💡 i am all for it

But let's also start covering car places to begin with

Agitatra 🚲🐻🦁🇪🇺🇺🇦Jul 9

@WiteWulf @stux Here in Germany more and more vinyards are using Solarpanels to shade the vines. Traditionally, vines were planted in Germany on mountain slopes, because there was a lack of sun and warmth. With increasing temperatures due to climate change, it's getting warmer and warmer, and the vines need shade.

https://www.spektrum.de/news/energiewende-solarzellen-ueber-dem-acker/2274715

Agitatra 🚲🐻🦁🇪🇺🇺🇦Jul 10

@WiteWulf @stux This article from "Spektrum der Wissenschaft" explains quite a lot regarding the synergy and problems of growing both crops and energy. Unfortunately, its behind a paywall and in German.

Solarzellen über dem Acker

Fotovoltaikanlagen auf Ackerflächen sind umstritten. Bei Agri-PV werden die Module in der Höhe montiert, um weiter Landwirtschaft zu ermöglichen. Das bietet Vorteile.

Spektrum.de

Graham Sutherland / Polynomial Jul 9

@stux @WiteWulf I was reading recently that since solar fields don't have any specific requirements around grazing or nitrogen fixation, they've started planting wildflowers and brushes, which are massively beneficial for insect populations and downstream ecosystems like birds. they described grass fields as a graveyard by comparison.

yelling jackal Jul 9

@gsuberland @stux @WiteWulf also the car park thing in lower quantity wouldn't be bad on fields with animals, either. You wouldn't know it from most of the farmland in the Netherlands, but livestock do actually need shade.

Graham Sutherland / Polynomial Jul 9

@len @WiteWulf @stux yup. I feel like "if you're gonna build a roof, build solar" is a pretty decent way to go.

cwicseolfor Jul 9

@len @gsuberland @WiteWulf @stux Elsewhere in the replies are two stories that mention using them in a barred pattern for sheep and for goats in conjunction with beehives. But absolutely any animals would be happier with intermittent shade and the lush graze that tends to bring than with a totally open, unshaded field - people in Europe and North America don’t realize how rare that once was and would be again without human intervention in most of the places they live and farm!

The_Sun Jul 9

But is the farmer making enough money to live on with those grass and animals?

Reliant on variable (and increasing extreme) weather, market prices, export prices, tarrifs etc.

It might look pretty, but it might not be economical worthwhile.

Using part of his land for solar lets the farmer have an guaranteed income through droughts etc.

You can also grow some crops better under solar. Sheep who graze under solar prduce better wool.
@WiteWulf

Not A Number Jul 9

Also, roads, railways, other public infrastructure...

Marcos Dione Jul 9

@NaN @stux canals! basins!

Not A Number Jul 9

@mdione @stux in all seriousness, I would be interested in solar "trees" around the edges of more fields instead of just blanketing some fields in panels.

cwicseolfor Jul 9

@NaN @mdione @stux If it’s at the edges, then we could put real trees there, providing wind breaks while sequestering carbon, sheltering animals and beneficial insects, all while looking nice; the upside of panels out in a field - not blanketed, but barred, as you can see in many replies to the original post - is that it shades the field underneath enough to increase the health of what’s growing under it but still allows people or even harvesting equipment underneath.

@mdione @NaN @stux Floatovoltaics and covered canals are a thing.

https://solarchitecture.ch/de/die-schweiz-weiht-das-erste-projekt-zur-solarstromerzeugung-zwischen-bahnschienen-ein/

Brokar Jul 9

@NaN

Switzerland is trying.

Die Schweiz weiht das erste Projekt zur Solarstromerzeugung zwischen Bahnschienen ein - Solarchitecture

Am 24. April 2025 hat Sun-Ways das weltweit erste für den Bahnverkehr freigegebene zwischen Bahnschienen verlegte Photovoltaik-Kraftwerk eingeweiht. Bei eher trübem Wetter hat Sun-Ways seine erste Solaranlage in den Neuenburger Bergen

Solarchitecture

The_Sun Jul 10

@Brokar

Solar between rails is not very practical for a number of reasons.

Better putting on station roofs.
Or standard size panels down the side of the rail corridor.
= Much cheaper and more electricity.

Solar roads and rails are great for generating click/ PR, just not practical.

What reasons wouldthat be?

The reason they're doing it is because Switzerland has >5000km rails. And since Switzerland is not very big, they intend to use every dead space they can. That's why they're doing a field test, see how it goes. And it's not that you could use the space for anything else.

The_Sun Jul 10

@NaN

Roads are not a great place for solar.

A) get shades by cars.
B) get dirty
C) don't last
D) slippery to drive on.

Between rail lines also not a great idea.

A) get shades by trains.
B) get dirty, from train brake dust. Have a look under a train, it gets covered in dust.

C) need custom size panels, custom fixtures.
D) needs to be moved to check and maintain sleepers, ballast, tracks.
E) impact damage
D) comes loose or tampered with and can cause serious derailment

F) needs special cleaning train.
G)low energy density.

In both cases building a standard frame on the side of the road/ rail corridor, or building on station roofs, or on the many empty roofs would be a lot cheaper and generate more electricity.

But these practical but boring things dont, don't get your company PR/clicks

Not A Number Jul 10

@The_Sun @stux I mean, that's what I would imagine you'd do. Create shade for the roads/tracks etc... with proven boring technology.

Trying to invent our way to net zero, especially if the aim is to ensure nobody is impacted by those changes, is a fools errand.

Phoenix Paulina Schmid Jul 9

@stux Why not both? Fields that can't be used for argiculture and car parks.

Darkpaw Jul 9

@stux There's some rudimentary info here on why it's actually a good idea: https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/agrivoltaics-solar-panels-agriculture.htm

Also, we can have solar panels on BOTH fields and car parks!

Isaac Ji Kuo Jul 9

@stux Both is better!

But I understand that here in Louisiana, it's impossible. You see, if we covered our car parks then the cars we're forced to use wouldn't get steaming hot under the summer sun.

Sorry, it's very important that we make everyone extremely miserable for no reason. It's extremely important that we don't provide any shade to parked cars here in hot miserable Louisiana.

We also got rid of window awnings. That was very important also.

Whalejuicesmoothie Jul 9

@stux cover *everything*

As panels are getting cheap, the support structure becomes a serious part of the cost (and even of the embedded energy). You need a lot more steel and foundations for such elevated panels.

Not sure about now, but not too long ago parking lots were money-losing PR projects(look us being green), while the field ones were serious.

Once we have enough PV to saturate summer peaks, every next panel produces less useful power. So lower cost is critical

@stux
I am seriously worried that we will kill off large-scale PV in the same way that we have now almost killed land-based wind. Keep adding well-intentioned restrictions until nothing gets built anymore

@Zamfr @stux Definitely need more battery and other storage.

@ariaflame @stux

Yes, but that costs serious money as well. Cheaper PV means more installed PV for the same money, means more hours that you can run mostly on the sun before you need batteries or other costly alternatives and complications.

That's why I am nervous about anything that drives up cost. We have not yet fixed that climate thing, and it becomess harder as the low hanging fruit gets done.

@Zamfr @stux Battery costs are coming down significantly, and we do need some storage if only for grid stabilisation, and because solar is limited to daylight ours. Sure add wind and other sources, but storage is an essential part of the new energy mix.

@ariaflame @stux Yes, no doubt about that. AFAICT , we will need every cost reduction we can get to push the transition faster - including on batteries.

Elena ``of Valhalla''Jul 9

@stux #whyNotBoth?

(there are some plants that, in some parts of the world, have been shown to grow better in the partial shade provided by solar panels than they would in the full sun)

(I suspect that they would be a bit higher up than they seem to be in the first image)

Rachel Greenham Jul 9

@valhalla @stux also shade for livestock can seriously improve their quality of life

Kevin Russell Jul 9

https://theconversation.com/solar-panels-on-half-the-worlds-roofs-could-meet-its-entire-electricity-demand-new-research-169302

Rooftop solar, on just HALF of the world's roofs, would produce MORE electricity than is used today from ALL sources. And would uplift all people, strengthen all people, and drive a permanent economic boom.

Let every Neighbourhood become Saudi Arabia, but free.

#climate

Solar panels on half the world’s roofs could meet its entire electricity demand – new research

India and China are the cheapest places to install rooftop solar, while the US, Japan and the UK are the most expensive.

The Conversation

https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/archives/127

mmalc Jul 9

@kevinrns @stux

This 2009 article contained my “go-to" infographic for many years:

It's since been updated:

https://landartgenerator.org/blagi/archives/77565

IMHO the former though contains some more "appealing" observations, e.g.

"The Saharan Desert is … 18 times the total required area to fuel the world”

"if the efficiency of conversion from solar to electricity was 100%, the area of USA highway would be equal to exactly that required to run the world”

Total Surface Area Required to Fuel the World With Solar — Land Art Generator

click for larger image download high resolution PDF Note in 2021: We have updated this information graphic in August of …

Land Art Generator

Loafer Jul 11

@kevinrns @stux It could be done if we just got rid of these job destroying facists!

Kevin Russell Jul 11

@leean00

And repair the accounting error that created the direct cause, the financial aneurysms of accumulated cash, billionaires. Ready to stroke out the civilisation. Billionairism.

Goos tax laws that help everyone become multimillionaires. Everyone.

Dave Mc Jul 9

@stux meh. Fields of monoculture crops have very little biodiversity and certainly aren't natural. While wild grassland under solar is pretty good. And if the field was growing corn or similar for a biofuel, then the solar covered field will create about 6 times more energy in the same area. Alternatively, there are quite a lot of crops that do very well when partially shared. Yields of strawberry under PV is better than conventional practices.

Usagi Jul 9

@guigsy @stux Only 6 times?

Dave Mc Jul 9

@usagi @stux if that solar generated electricity went onto an electric car, as opposed to the corn being brewed for a biodiesel car, you'd get about 20 times further per unit area of field. BEV efficiency is pretty impressive compared to combustion engines.