Mastodawn

Phil (ascentale)Jul 6

@artemesia @bikenite A6. I think I've experienced a stranger drafting off of me only once. I haven't been riding in a draftable situation much in the last 10 years or so.

When it happened, it was weird, because because all of a sudden someone was all in my space. They didn't say anything, they just tucked in behind me. I kept on riding. It must have been 10 minutes or so before they eventually passed me and kept going.

I didn't like it because it felt intrusive. I did some quick searching and I don't think it would have slowed me down aerodynamically.

I wouldn't do it to someone else unless I were having a hard time and felt that I needed to in order to make it somewhere in time.

oheso Jul 6

A6. It is totally intrusive. When I told my riding buddies about the construction worker hitching a draft, they said they'd have had words with him about it.

If they're close enough, the drafting won't slow you down and may even provide some aerodynamic benefit. (Source: four years of aero engineering back in the '80s before giving it up as a lost cause.)

#BikeNite (belated)

Trouble Jul 6

@oheso @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite Specialized showed a few percentage point improvements for both riders when drafting, even when a few meters behind. They have a small wind tunnel at their facility in Morgan Hill, CA. It's on YouTube! #BikeNite

nick Jul 4

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite #bikenite A6: while I probably shed a pretty good wake I'm never really going fast enough for it to help anyone :-) it'd shit me having anyone ride that close anyway. The nearest thing I'll do is to try to keep up with younger, fitter riders on the trails, but not at drafting distance and it never lasts for long :-)

oheso Jul 5

@nickzoic @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite Shedding a pretty good wake: I'll have to remember that one as it describes me.

The friend who joined me for the Tour de Tohoku in 2019 was having trouble keeping pace, particularly when we encountered a headwind. I tried to shed wake for her, but she wasn't confident enough to tuck in close.

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6: I had a guy start drafting off me on Burke-Gilman a few months ago and he made some funny joke about it at the time that made me laugh and that helped

but I really rarely see it here so

Marty Cormack Jul 4

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite
#bikenite A6:
I've only ever drafted with friends, except for one time, years ago when I was struggling on a ride event on an exceptionally windy day when a kind stranger invited me to draft so I could finish the event. It taught me how effective and important drafting could be under such circumstances.

I would never draft with a stranger unless invited to do so.

Sam Whited Jul 4

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6. I am *not* a racer so I probably shouldn't answer this one, but my general thoughts is that if you're on a group ride, ask about their rules before hand (some of them around here specifically require you to show that you know how to draft safely first), and otherwise just don't do it with strangers because they don't know if you're going to be able to do it safely and you don't know if they understand what you're doing or will brake hard randomly.

Doug Cutting Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6. One should ask before drafting a stranger. A simple, "Mind if I draft you?" suffices. Also, if you are able, you should offer to take a pull after a bit. It's okay if you are not able to pull very long. #BikeNite

AE4WX Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite it's been years since I rode with anyone so I don't know.

twoodford Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6. In my experience, it’s usually polite to ask, although not everyone does. I have an ebike, so usually the other person only drafts off of me, but it’s good to switch off otherwise.

#BikeNite #BikeTooter #Cycling #MastoBikes

Moz Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite Q6: be really careful, and aware that you are putting them in danger by riding so close to them. Expect them to be offended and be pleasantly surprised if they agree to let you do so.

You absolutely do need their explicit consent.

I'm offended by this, and I have had arguments with lycra louts about it that have occasionally resulted in them learning valuable lessons about their skills or lack thereof.

AI6YR Ben Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite #BikeNite A6. I have learned from bicycling movies you are only supposed to do this on the back of semis on the freeway that are doing 60mph, without a helmet. 🤪 😱

(maybe don't do that, unless you don't care about your life)

Homewreckin Carnival Girl Jul 5

@ai6yr @ascentale @artemesia
Off-topic so ill keep it at a whisper:
Driving an RV up a long grade in the arizona desert, i realized a cyclist had grabbed hold of the ladder and was hitching a ride.

It felt a little bit like a butterfly had landed on me! i slowed way down and hauled him to the top with what i hope was a minimum of exhaust fumes. What a thrill

oheso Jul 5

@ai6yr @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite I love that movie! I just recommended it to a coworker last month.

me_valentijn Jul 5

@ai6yr @ascentale @artemesia
If you wear a helmet, no one will be able to appreciate your awesome 80's hairdo 🤗

Jon Roach Jul 5

@ai6yr @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6 or behind a tractor doing 25mph on the fast false-flat B3073 past Bournemouth Airport, sitting three feet behind the harrow and thinking if he stops suddenly I'm going to be shredded! #BikeNite

AI6YR Ben Jul 5

@FourT4 @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite 😬

Mark Connolly 🍻 🚴🏼‍♀️ (he, him, his)Jul 5

@ai6yr @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite That only works in Indiana 😀🚴‍♂️

oheso Jul 5

A6. There's a stretch of about half a kilometer on my commute home where the timing of the lights is such that I have to get right off the line and pedal at my max to make the next two lights in a row.

Two evenings in a row, there was another rider poised at the start of the drag. I didn't take note because he was dressed as a construction worker. But he'd figured out the timing as I had, and drafted me the entire way. I was surprised, but OK.

Demian Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite a6. For sure you should ask as it can be dangerous and it’s kind of getting in someone’s personal space where they just don’t want that imposition.

markn🚲Jul 5

A6. I reckon it depends, which makes it classic internet no nuance opinion fodder 😆 #bikenite

Bad draft: That club rider who never takes a turn for 50km, then sprints for the cafe (every ****** week)

Bad draft: Men (always!) who can't hack being passed & silently remora onto the back wheel (usually until they blow up!).

Good draft: You want some local KOM points & you're having fun working as a group to do it.

Good draft: You're touring or just out for a long ride. It's windy & hard. You have an interesting chat & share the load with someone you meet.

Kind draft: You help out (or get helped out). Cause one of you is tired & really struggling.

Bad manners draft: People who work to catch you up, then silently sit there. It's just rude, don't be that person.

Feznander Jul 7

@markn @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite As a strictly utilitarian/casual pleasure rider, I've only ever been drafted once, and it was by an old Lycra guy after I passed him on a city path (in my jeans and work backpack, on a Surly Trucker with a front rack, obviously not racing anyone). He followed me most of the way to work with his shadow looming over my shoulder, and it felt extremely rude.

Jon Roach Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6 I usually yell "thanks for the tow" when I peel off... electric bikes are absolutely fair game. If someone's behind me that's absolutely fine, but I might do the twirly finger sign and back off after a few minutes. #BikeNite

Megan Lynch (she/her)Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6. I don't know about established etiquette, but the main thing I'd be worried about is that I'm not being followed more closely than the person can safely stop if there's a sudden need to brake. I don't feel people drafting off me slow me down (although they're definitely benefitting from me breaking the breeze for them). But when I was touring with family, one of the worst cycle accidents I've been around happened when my brother's friend drafted too #BikeNite

Megan Lynch (she/her)Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6, cont'd. closely. My brother had to brake suddenly (for wildlife, I think) and my brother's friend hit the brakes so hard that he went over his handlebars into my brother. He also burned his tire right down to the canvas. #BikeNite

Phil (ascentale)Jul 6

@meganL @artemesia @bikenite yikes! Yes, that's what I'd be concerned about, even if drafting from (or being drafted by) someone who I know well.

Jon Roach Jul 5

@meganL @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite hi, in a similar vein I'll always check out whether the rest of the group are on disc or rim brakes! #BikeNite

Glen, waiting for the pre-poll Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6.

The basic issue with drafting is that the safety of the front rider depends on the behaviour of the following rider. They have to be paying attention to speed, alert to the idea of braking, and not ever overlap wheels.

It's reasonable not to trust a random drafter to meet their obligations.

A peloton paceline is different, everyone has practice and experience in the drill. So there can be a higher level of trust.

Of course a rider can always be generous, and I sometimes am. Otherwise I can jink out two metres to a side and invite the wheel sucker to "go on ahead."

People travelling a 5+ metres behind aren't drafting. They are just taking the same route I am.

rowmyboat Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite DON’T DO IT!! As a general rule, and there are, of course, occasional exceptions. But it’s usually rude & maybe dangerous.

The mutual exception I have is this other commuter I find myself riding with like twice a year. Without ever having talked about it, if one of us catches the other’s wheel, it’s on. I don’t even know his name! We are both year round commuters of similar speed & skill; it works. #BikeNite

rowmyboat Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite tbh, usually if someone tries to sit in my draft, I put the hammer down and shed them, for my well-being and to make them feel a little bad for doing something rude. #BikeNite

Jul 5

@ascentale
A6: I don't really care / mind people drafting me. I met some really nice folks that wat

I prefer knowing they are there though as I will start pointing potholes and obstacles if I know about it.

When it's me drafting/ catching up, I make sure they see me and in case this is a group of the ♀️, I will definitely ask properly as I appreciate that the presence of a bloke behind could make you feel uneasy

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite I had someone drafting behind me and I didn't know it until I had to emergency stop and they swore at me for doing it. I don't mind helping but some communication would be good

Matthew Newell Jul 5

proper drafting. Hell no. Should only be done if you know and trust the person or are in a race situation

Sitting on a wheel. Hmm. If you are both similarly racey then yes but do your turn even if short. And acknowledge the work-shared. If they are a pedalling machine then yes but keep aware and say please thank you / enjoy rest of yr ride etc.

Drafting scooter motorcycle - yes but make sure they are aware

#bikenite #biketooter

Mark Chick Jul 5

A6. Yes, it is not something you do, whether sitting on a wheel or offering someone else yours to ride on. It is not safe for all concerned.

Gudroot Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6: Just don't. This is one of the cases where only yes means yes. And unless explicitly permitted it is a no-go and will make some people (e.g. me) extremely mad at you.

rand Jul 5

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6. I’ve not drafted since group rides in college. While it is a thrill, and a chance to take a break, it can be scary, especially if one or both of are not practiced. I do remember my shock the first time I tucked in behind another cyclist and had to hit the breaks before I hit their tire. I never got comfortable enough not to have one eye glued on that tire in front of me. So my advice? Just don’t. #BikeNite

@rand @ascentale @bikenite

Artemesia Jul 5

Ok all and sundry. My question, as originally phrased, was not in any way asking under what circumstances I should draft, instead it was mostly me bitching about a jerk who drafted off me uninvited in a solor riding situation, and in that context asking if there was some ettiquette I was unaware of that would make that drafting dude not a jerk. My question got stripped of context and edited to something it wasn't.

So kindly lets lay off the telling me "don't do that". I'm not going to do that (drafting off strangers), especially on an ebike. Road bike in a group of other road bikers, yes I will draft and be drafted upon and take my turn at the apex.

Phil (ascentale)Jul 5

@artemesia @rand @bikenite sorry I needed to edit it. I had to fit it under 500 chars and I try to do my best to fit the questions, while maintaining intent

rand Jul 5

@artemesia @ascentale @bikenite Please don’t take my answer personally, I’ve always thought of #BikeNite questions as somewhat hypothetical. I get that this was not about asking if it was ok for you to draft somebody without asking. My answer is for the guy (most likely a guy right?) who did that to you with out asking. And no *they* should not do that!

Jef Poskanzer Jul 6

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6. I don't do group rides and rarely try to go fast, but one time I was doing a speedrun up San Pablo Avenue from Oakland to Albany to try and get home before dark. Around Dwight way I heard a voice from behind me say "Could you stop riding in front of me??" I think she realized how ridiculous her request was because she made the next right turn.

Phil (ascentale)Jul 6

@jef @artemesia @bikenite I would be too confused to be able to have a response

😀🚲Jul 6

@ascentale @jef @artemesia Sounds like an infrastructure problem to me #BikeNite A6 #TailwindBikewayTunnel

daihard (he/him)Jul 6

@ascentale @jef @artemesia @bikenite@a.gup.pe Me, too. Maybe she turned right because she felt too embarrassed to keep following you? 😅

Jef Poskanzer Jul 6

@daihard @ascentale @bikenite @artemesia She might have been embarrassed that she couldn't pass a fat old man on a mountain bike.

scott f Jul 6

@ascentale A6. I got creeped out by some guy doing this late at night in a desolate part of town. It felt like someone was following me and trying to hide that they were following me. I gave him a look and he shouted that he was drafting off me. Still, did not care for the experience. #BikeNite

Pete Jul 6

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite A6 #BikeNite It's a dick move. End of.

Gemma ⭐️🔰🇺🇸 🇵🇭 🎐Jul 6

@ascentale @artemesia @bikenite #BikeNite A6. As someone who has no interest in racing, I have no interest in drafting, but even I understand that drafting off someone you don’t even know is kinda creeptastic. I can see that maybe if you are “birds of a feather” and recognize each other on sight as such, there might be a sort of camaraderie formed, where it would be OK, but I’d advise against doing so without explicit communication. As mother always said, “It doesn’t hurt to ask politely.”

Pete Jul 6

@gcvsa @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite So creepy! It's akin to jumping into the back of a stranger's car to save paying for gas. 🤣

AE4WX Jul 6

@pete @gcvsa @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite fortunately for me, I'm so slow that NO ONE wants to draft off me 🤣

Cainmark Does Not Comply 🚲Jul 6

A6. I think I only had it happen once. I stopped to take a photo and someone was way too close to my left side when they passed me.

While I'm large enough that people behind me might think they'd get a benefit, pretty sure that I'm also slow enough that they'd just get annoyed.

Jon Roach Jul 6

@cainmark @ascentale @artemesia @bikenite hi, my most memorable one of these was when I pulled out of an unofficial group and swung onto the crown of the road, then swung back towards the kerb because it had been a long day and I was waiting for my mates and I wasn't thinking. Much shouting from behind, and then a dopplered "jeeeeesus", and the woman who'd been behind me shot off up the road in pursuit of her buddies 🫢 #BikeNite #NoHarmDone #eek