Jernej Simončič �Jun 27
Hailey

Sent a pull request to Audacity fixing a crash bug I'd been running into frequently. The cause was an out-of-bounds memmove. Classic C++ areas.

Anyway I got a fucking copilot review on my PR which left two comments, both completely wrong, one of which suggesting I reintroduce the out of bounds memory access. I'm furious!

Jun 26 at 10:59pmWeb
Show threadHaileyJun 26
You know back in my day, we had static analysis tooling that would give you exactly this kind of feedback, except it was correct. Now we have shit which only looks at the vibes of the source text and does no semantic analysis whatsoever, so of course it's just fucking wrong
Show threadHaileyJun 26
I spent a couple of hours yesterday getting Audacity building, reproducing and diagnosing the bug, and wrapping my head around the complex logic in this part of the code so that I could implement a correct fix. To have copilot review my work, which I contributed back for free, is just so incredibly disrespectful to my time and effort.
Show threadjosh g.Jun 26
@hailey And they're doing it because they believe that if they keep spamming the programming community with this bullshit enough, it'll eventually learn to code itself better and then ✨✨✨magical AGI bullshit heaven!!!✨✨✨
Show threadTenacity Audio EditorJun 26

@hailey Not to self promo but we're working on rebasing off Audacity 3.7.4 (without the Muse stuff) and chances are we likely have this bug on our rebase branch. If you want to help us with our rebate efforts we'd be happy! No CLA and AI are involved too!

@gperson will be happy to help you with anything too. Just ask him and he'll help you out the best he can! (That's me writing this too. Hello 😄👋)

Show threadHaileyJun 27
@tenacity @gperson I had already planned to send this fix across! I wasn't aware of the muse drama or Tenacity until today but I'll be switching over going forward :)
Show threadcrypticceleryJun 27
@hailey @tenacity for the uninitiated, what was/is the muse drama (if someone has the time to answer this or point me in a direction)?
Show threadLinuxUserGD Jun 27
@crypticcelery @hailey @tenacity
Telemetry: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/pull/835
Contributor License Agreement:
https://github.com/audacity/audacity/discussions/932
Basic telemetry for the Audacity by crsib · Pull Request #835 · audacity/audacity

Please, see our response: #889 Dear all, Due to the large amount of worry about this PR, (which we completely understand), we want to clarify exactly what is going on: Telemetry is strictly optio...

GitHub
Show threadjaxter184Jun 27
@crypticcelery there may have been additional happenings that im not aware of, but the main ones are that they introduced a CLA that would (i believe) hypothetically let MuseCY Holdings make proprietary releases based on the currently GPL codebase, and that they have had a couple kerfuffles with regards to privacy policies and telementry (which, imo, the reaction was more negative than would usually be warranted, probably in part because of the lack of transparency of MuseCY)
Show threaddisorderlyfJun 27
@jaxter184 I did not know about this, just the dumb analytics controversy. Welp, guess I'm going back to refusing to use Audacity.
Show threadIlya ZverevJun 27
@crypticcelery @hailey @tenacity https://tenacityaudio.org/docs/_content/Introduction_and_Motivation.html#history
Introduction — Tenacity 1.3e1 documentation

Show threadkittenJun 28
@hailey @tenacity @gperson awawa lol i reported this many years back and got multiple patch ideas at the time https://github.com/audacity/audacity/issues/2930
Crash when scrolling spectrogram partially off-screen · Issue #2930 · audacity/audacity

Describe the bug When I switch a clip to spectrogram view and scroll it partly off-screen, it calls memmove with an out-of-bounds source (which crashes on Flatpak Audacity, and is invalid but uncau...

GitHub
Show threadGeneric PersonJun 28
@nyanpasu64 @tenacity @hailey Oh you know what that was probably it and it's been finally fixed after all this time. Nice to know how that finally got fixed! 😄
Show threadkittenJun 29
@gperson @tenacity @hailey Now we simply wait for the AI-powered spectrogram view... but unironically neural networks are the current meta for audio source separation and possibly transcription.
Show threadGeneric PersonJun 29

@nyanpasu64 @tenacity @hailey OH GOD 💀

I do acknowledge the power AI, however, especially for audio, but I'd prefer if it is run locally at least. I don't have anything with NPUs, however,so you won't see that coming from me ateast.

Oh, and your horizontal scrolling work on Tenacity's plot spectrum window was recently reapplied to the rebase branch. Only proof that your contribution will live on for years! 😄

Show threadGeneric PersonJun 29
@nyanpasu64 @tenacity @hailey And about the NPU thing: I'm down to using a 10-year-old laptop as my main right now. Gotta worry about getting a newer one first, then I'll worry about NPUs 💀
Show threadHaileyJun 27
@tenacity @gperson btw I would be interested in contributing some work to move the processing for the spectrogram view off the UI thread to keep the UI snappy and responsive (it currently chugs a bit while h-scrolling with spectrogram on), but since this is a larger piece of work + I see that Tenacity is in the middle of an upstream rebase effort, I wanted to check in first to see what kind of appetite there would be for accepting such a change. Let me know!
Show threadGeneric PersonJun 27

@hailey @tenacity I'd say go for it! Just keep in mind that we'd merge it after the rebate is complete, so maybe create the PR once it's all done and then we'll go from there! 😄

If you'd like to help us out with the rebate effort, you can port our dynamic compressor over. Just that plus the Matroska exporter are what we need left, which I'm handling the exporter right now. (There's also a few other things but these are the major things that need taking care if).

Show threadHaileyJun 27
@gperson @tenacity should I base it off the rebase branch or main for now?
Show threadGeneric PersonJun 27
@hailey @tenacity Base it off the rebase branch ('audacity-3.7-rebase'). That way, it's less work done when we ultimately merge that branch back into main.
Show threadGeneric PersonJun 27
@hailey @tenacity Right now I have the default branch as 'audacity-3.7-rebase' as that's where active development is happening. Eventually, I'll merge it back into 'main' where normal things will continue.
Show threadEliasJun 27

@gperson @hailey @tenacity great to see this, for once things are working as they should:

(1) some "bigh tech" thing behaves in a way that is disgusting and unacceptable
(2) people move away from that awful thing to something better, in this case @Codeberg

🎉 😄

(I mean, too often it's like "this big tech thing is truly horrible. Now I'm going to keep using it as if nothing happened".)

Show threadDeborah PickettJun 26
@hailey The only reason I keep my github account alive these days is to stick solidarity emotes on other people’s issues and comments. I should be surprised that the audacity committers are like this, but I’m really not.
Show threadThe Witch of Crow BriarJun 27
@hailey I don’t blame you for being furious, all of this is absolutely appalling! 
Show threadIrenes (many)Jun 27
@hailey oh, for sure. extremely disrespectful.
Show threadMaZderMindJun 27

@hailey I can relate so much.

It is called social coding for a reason. Learning from each other and being nice to each other is so much part of PR work.

Show threadMark Corbett WilsonJun 27
@hailey
Is aishittification a word yet?
Show threadJean-Baptiste "JBQ" QuéruJun 27

@mcorbettwilson @hailey I call AI "Artificial Incompetence." Once in that mindset, I have rarely been disappointed.

Those so-called AI systems keep making the kind of mistakes that would get humans fired.

Show threadHenri VerymetaldevJun 27

@mcorbettwilson @hailey No but i'd happily propagate it.

Also pretty sure i'm going to use AI for complicated 3D printing model generation.

But in term of video and images the glossyness, sepia and utter lack of humor make AI ever so boring.

No worries, Robert Crumb is still King.

Show threadHans-Cees 🌳🌳🤢🦋🐈🐈🍋🍋🐝🐜Jun 27
@mcorbettwilson @annekekassteele @hailey thats a wise #language #innovation
#enshitification #aishitification
Show threadMike Taylor 🦕Jun 27
@hanscees @mcorbettwilson @annekekassteele @hailey I prefer #enshittAIfication
Show threadSuperMoosieJun 27

@mcorbettwilson

Ot just slop
@hailey

Show threadGreenpeteJun 27
@mcorbettwilson
It certainly should be! 👌
@hailey
Show threadguentherJun 27

@hailey

hey at least the team didn't send you an email threatening to get you deported to China

https://github.com/Xmader/musescore-downloader/issues/5

(musescore and audacity are owned by the same company)

How to respond to the takedown request email? · Issue #5 · Xmader/musescore-downloader

Hi, I'm Musescore developer. You need to takedown this repository: https://github.com/Xmader/musescore-downloader and any other your public repositories with same code. Because you illegaly use our...

GitHub
Show threadTeun 🌏 ❤️ 🏳️‍🌈 🇺🇦 🇵🇸Jun 27

@guenther @hailey

The more I read into the Copilot stuff and the API stuff, the shadier it gets.

This is really sad, because I feel like @tantacrul (their Head of Software) is really very critical of exactly this kind of late-capitalist nonsense.

Show threadguentherJun 27

@teun I don't care what he is supposedly critical of. If your company threatens to deport people, that crosses a line.

(Also the entire analytics/privacy shitshow where they tried to forbid people under 13 to use Audacity (because children cannot legally consent to their data being collected) and Audacity's license change from GPL to MIT.)

But the China thing is just a whole other level of moral bankruptcy.

@hailey

Show threadTeun 🌏 ❤️ 🏳️‍🌈 🇺🇦 🇵🇸Jun 27

@guenther @hailey

I fully agree. I'm just saying that I cannot quite put these different things together in my head. I hope they will do something drastic in response to this because it doesn't look good.

Show threadguentherJun 27

@teun nah, look at the dates in that github thread. happened five years ago, nobody cares.

@hailey

Show threadEfi (nap pet) 🦊💤Jun 27
@hailey such a strong feeling of deja vu from this thread
it has happened before and it will happen again ;n;
Show threadPhosphenesJun 27

@hailey

Why the fuck is the Audacity team using copilot?

Show threadMxFraudJun 27

@hailey is it ok to take your screenshots and put it on LinkedIn to dunk on AIs.

I promise I will write an alt text on the image, and can remove your username if you rather not have it visible.

Happy to hear that no, you don't want me to do that (this is why I ask!).

Show threadMr Lawrence 🇪🇺🇷🇼Jun 27
@hailey Your rage is both magnificent and eloquent! 👌
Show threadSoatok DreamseekerJun 27
@hailey Wow, the Audacity.
Show thread1.3.6.1.4.1.61513Jun 27
@soatok @hailey soatok
Show threadjcoglanJun 26
@hailey replacing the compiler with sentiment analysis
Show thread0xC0DEC0DE07E9Jun 26
@jcoglan @hailey I refuse to accept Sentimental Code Analysis as an overload for SCA (Static Code Analysis, Software Composition Analysis).
Show threadGwen, the Fops :therian::sheher::itits:Jun 27
@hailey static analysis was much better but it did not (does not) have correct output... You can absolutely confuse it with several valid code patterns (the one my company uses gets confused with using unique pointers for cleanup functions). But it was at least much better than that garbage
Show threadweykent foxJul 6
@gwenthekween @hailey fortunately, these days we have rust
Show threadDavid KeckJun 27
@hailey god daaaamn this is true
Show threadHoward Chu @ SymasJun 27
@hailey the static analyzers gave 99% false positives so ... just ignore it all.
Show threadPaolo AmorosoJun 27

@hailey For example the Masterscope static analysis tool of Interlisp which still runs nicely on Medley Interlisp:

https://files.interlisp.org/medley/library/MASTERSCOPE.TEDIT.pdf

In the 1970s it could answer queries such as these (and didn't make stuff up):

. IS FOO BOUND BY ANY ON PATH TO ’PARSE

. WHICH ENTRIES OF ANY CALLING ’Y BIND ANY GLOBALVARS ON ’FOO

. WHO SETS ANY BOUND IN X OR CALLED BY Y

Show threadcrabJun 27

@hailey And those static analysis tools took many years of research and engineering to solve the issue of false positives.

Meanwhile, an LLM being wrong 90% of the time is no concern at all.

Show threadAndrewJun 27
@hailey its endlessly frustrating watching coworkers struggle with incorrect suggestions from copilot instead of an analyzer that *actually understands the rest of the code and the names of members*
Show threadAndrewJun 27
@hailey I think vscode entirely lacks the latter option which is probably why… dear god can we please just get everyone using pycharm this is infuriating
Show threadTane Piper ⁂Jun 27
@hailey Static Manalysis
Show thread64kbJun 28
@hailey when you put it like that, it makes me want both; I've been on some code bases with pretty bad vibes.
Show threadleοn(a)yaJun 28
@hailey In a university survey targeting maintainers of open source software, I was asked whether I think AI/LLM tooling would help with reviews. My answer was mostly that I think almost all changes are better assisted with static analysis and sometimes (or most times) wrong comments would more lead to contributor burnout/dissatisfaction. We (the researcher and I) later talked about this and he said it was a new thought for him. This made me somewhat sad as such usability aspects should be first
Show threadPēteris KrišjānisJun 28
@hailey yep, exactly this. Programmers have these tools already and they are actually good.
Now everything is thrown away because dumb investors own all money.
Show threadErtainJun 26
@hailey That's some bullshit.