Mastodawn

Damper 🇨🇦2d ago

Look, I know AI is controversial, but just for a moment, let's set aside our preconceived notions, our biases, the environmental impact, the massive cost to train and run models, the labor exploitation, the intellectual property theft, the inaccuracies, the mania it causes in users, the destruction of search, the deskilling of professionals, the devaluation of creative work, job losses, and lack of economic value from enterprise implementations.

Wait, what were we talking about?

@maxleibman you forgot a trillion dollars invested in the bubble

Colin (@ Anthrocon 2025)1d ago

@bonkers @maxleibman imagine if that Trillion was invested anywhere else. (OK not anywhere, but actually productive things).

Beppo Craig 1d ago

@colinstu @bonkers @maxleibman you spend that amount of money on pretty much anything and turn it into something productive.

Theosoreass 2d ago

@maxleibman about the story in 2000 AD ,can't remember the name but basically a goʻd upcoming artist dreams of becoming an artist for a comic possibly 2000 AD ,he gets an interview and submits his portfolio,they come back and say no thankyou.next day the comic starts a new strip using his art style. Long story short they fed his portfolio into the computer

Infrapink (he/his/him)17h ago

@Theosoreass @maxleibman

That was "The Art of Kenny Who?", a Judge Dredd story.

At the time, it was a satire of how comics companies exploit workers by giving them punishing deadlines and dropping them when they can't keep up, but maintain all rights and copyrights to their work and continue to make money off the writers' ideas. So of course the capitalists decided to make it literal.

tuban_muzuru 2d ago

Sigh. I sure wish the Chicken Littles had taken a little more linear algebra.

Just saying.

Magnus Ahltorp 2d ago

@tuban_muzuru @maxleibman How much linear algebra do you need to see the light, because I’ve taken quite a lot of it, and I ain’t seeing it.

tuban_muzuru 2d ago

@ahltorp @maxleibman

It does furnish the working vocabulary and terms of art

Training AI models usually involves optimization, which means finding the best set of parameters (weights and biases) to minimize an error function. This process heavily relies on concepts like gradients (derivatives of multi-variable functions) and iterative updates, all of which are intrinsically linked to linear algebraic principles.

tuban_muzuru 2d ago

@ahltorp @maxleibman

I'll just say it: linear algebra becomes indispensable for the computations that drive AI.

Matrix multiplication are central to neural networks, where input data is transformed through layers of weights to produce outputs.

Concepts like eigenvalues and eigenvectors are crucial in dimensionality reduction techniques (e.g., PCA) that simplify complex datasets, making them more manageable for algorithms.

Mania Emma 1d ago

@tuban_muzuru @ahltorp @maxleibman yes. This is theory. Only theory.

tuban_muzuru 1d ago

@Emmaf_77 @ahltorp @maxleibman

Simply put, without the vocabulary of linear algebra, including all the calculus of loss and error functions, gradient descent, even backprop is the chain rule - if you can't do the math, do everyone a favor and don't embarrass yourself by saying dumb things.

Stats and Probability fill in for noisy data, inferential statistics, combinatorics, optimization theory.

But linear algebra is the vocabulary of these things.

@tuban_muzuru @Emmaf_77 @ahltorp @maxleibman I'm trying to figure what is your point here… coz it sure sounds like you think all of the aforementioned points by OP are all not very important if we can do fucking cool nerd shits (that don't really work well anyway).

Magnus Ahltorp 1d ago

@tuban_muzuru @maxleibman “derivatives of multi-variable functions” is calculus, not linear algebra, but that is only relevant when you know the function and can make a derivative, which means that you have to go to yet another mathematical field: numerical analysis. All of which I have studied (including machine learning), but it still doesn’t answer the question why fancy chatbots are considered a magical entity that is predestined to solve all problems.

tuban_muzuru 1d ago

@ahltorp @maxleibman

… and who might think they can intelligently discuss AI _without_ linear algebra? Riddle me that, Magnus.

Magnus Ahltorp 1d ago

@tuban_muzuru @maxleibman Then what is “AI” to you? Is it limited to machine learning that is linear algebra based? Neither “AI” nor “machine learning” is necessarily based in linear algebra, so you only seem to only mean “AI” in a post-deep-ANN sense.

And studying the effects of fancy chatbots can be done perfectly well without knowing one iota of linear algebra, which I know partly because I know linear algebra and partly because I know things besides linear algebra.

Steven Sandoval 2d ago

@maxleibman > Wait, what were we talking about?

Singularity worship.

Ashwin Dixit 2d ago

There are 5 main reasons creatives hate AI:

1) Consent: Grabs their work without asking.

2) Credit: Doesn't give them credit.

3) Compensation: Doesn't pay them.

4) Commodification: Trivializes the craft they learned diligently, over time.

5) Replacement: Takes their paying gigs away.

Then as you pointed out, there's the environment impact.

One of the projects in my queue is:
"maLcoLM: the ethical AI", which addresses ALL these concerns.

1/n

Ashwin Dixit 2d ago

Artists voluntarily submit their work as training data to maLcoLM.

maLcoLM credits artists.

maLcoLM pays artists automatically anytime a derivative work is generated, in exact proportion to the extent their original work contributed to the derived work.

maLcoLM is a tribute to artists' hard work, a super-charged creative tool to let them take creativity to the next level.

maLcoLM will generate more paying work at a higher level of sophistication, not replace people.

2/n

Ashwin Dixit 2d ago

Please share your thoughts on this.

Do you think artists hate AI too much to ever open up to this concept?

Would you ever contribute art/music/writing/code to maLcoLM?

Thanks!

3/3/

Arne Mertz 2d ago

@purrperl my thoughts: where would the money come from to pay those artists, on top of the energy cost? The use of that AI would be much more expensive than the ones trained on stolen IP. Would the market for not-so-cheap AI art be big enough to warrant the investment in the thousands (or millions?) of pieces of actual art needed to train it?
Wouldn't anyone ethical enough to pay the price for maLcoLms "fair" AI art be ethical enough to just pay the artist directly and get an original?

@arne_mertz @purrperl You have made a very valid point with this. AI is all so very new, and we have yet so far to go in understanding and be able to use AI to our benefit and to its full potential.

I'm looking forward to doing much research into this.

Stay blessed.

Ashwin Dixit 2d ago

Thanks for asking!

Artists are paid every time a work is exchanged for money. This could mean a flat fee code generation service, or NFTs in case of art such as paintings, music, etc.

maLcoLM ties into AlohaCoin2, also a WIP:
https://blog.glue.earth/2023/10/alohacoin2-proposal-for-new-form-of.html

Energy sources:
https://paper.wf/penumbrage/hawaiian-renaissance

As for unethical AI competition, people hate them enough to outlaw and/or boycott them & run them out of town.

Original art = 1-author NFT / direct sale
Derived art = multi-author NFT

More?

AlohaCoin2: Proposal for a New Form of Cryptocurrency aimed at Economic Justice and the Environment

AlohaCoin2 Proposal for a New Form of Cryptocurrency aimed at Economic Justice and the Environment What?! A Cryptocurrency? Aren't cryptocur...

@purrperl @maxleibman I happened upon Mastrodon while doing an assignment for school.

Not only am I happy that I stumbled upon this amazing place, but thank everyone of you for being here submitting your thoughts, your knowledge, and providing information that I otherwise would never know about.

In saying this, thank you for your post, I have never heard of MalColm myself and will definitely take a peek-see to find out more about it and how it would benefit me.

Thank you.

Ashwin Dixit 2d ago

@Jas4U @maxleibman

Thanks. Glad you liked the idea.

maLcoLM is one of the planned offerings of this venture, which is a work-in-progress:

https://gitlab.com/we-glue-earth/we.glue.earth

Free Software is DIY.
Like something?
Jump in and help build it.
Something missing or something that could be improved?
Help out! Send Pull Requests, make pages to write documentation, help in any way you can. Do tell your friends about the project.

It's OUR world. Help build it and shape it.

Mahalo!

we-glue-earth / we.glue.earth · GitLab

A worker owned co-operative.

GitLab

@purrperl @maxleibman Absolutely. I will certainly share it. Sounds like an amazing idea.

1337 $#!+ I did that 2d ago

@maxleibman I think I will pick up smoking. Or heroin.

beSpacific 2d ago

@maxleibman Thank you. + #copyright #education #intelligence #learning #communications #facts #research #intellectualDecline #BigTech #billionaires #power #corruption #scholarship ....

@maxleibman ...and the overwhelming load on web servers and admins caused by AI bots

Why We Went Extinct 2d ago

@maxleibman that reminds me of something...

Claus Cramon Houmann 2d ago

@maxleibman you won the Internet today. Congratulations. 👍🙏🤝

Paweł Pyś 2d ago

@maxleibman Great post!

Critical Silence 2d ago

@maxleibman hell this was a rollercoaster 😃
First I thought "Okay, he asks me to listen, he sure has something to say" and after a while "... wait...he is one of us?"

@maxleibman the question I often ask myself, especially with regards to the art theft of AI, is: does having the ability to instantly generate art actually make society better?

I just don't see the point. We create art to express ourselves. When a machine does it for us, the machine is doing most of the expressing for us.

The only situation I can really see there being a point is for people who view the creative process as an impediment to maximizing profi- ohhhhh...

NiceMicro 2d ago

@constancies @maxleibman most people I know can differentiate between "great art that is supposed to mean something" vs. a "funny picture that makes me smile for 4 minutes".

AI image generation is used for the second purpose by most everyday folk. For the corporate types, they've been doing soulless "art" work for decades, the kinds of stuff their creatives did had no, or only traces of "self-expression" anyways.

🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦1d ago

@constancies @maxleibman The problem is that there is so much demand for "anime girl big bewbs" pictures that machines have had to be created to keep up.

Orca 🌻 | 🎀 | 🪁 | 🏴🏳️‍⚧️2d ago

@maxleibman Did you hallucinate there? /j 😂

Marty Fouts 2d ago

@maxleibman We were talking about the subset of machine learning known as Large Language Models that for some reason people keep mislabeling as “AI” because they can’t be bothered to be precise. Do you really want to throw out nearly 70 years of research and development because of sloppy labeling?

Max Leibman 2d ago

@MartyFouts I do not, but this is satire, and I am adopting the vernacular of those I’m satirizing.

Magnus Ahltorp 2d ago

@MartyFouts @maxleibman I also think the “AI” label should not be applied the way it is, but you or me thinking that does not change language use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAYbugX7hEk&t=56s

“What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?” | Monty Python’s Life of Brian (1979) | Classic Satire

YouTube

@maxleibman @alice Turning the oligarchy into mushroom feed.

NiceMicro 2d ago

@maxleibman Car transport is not controversial, even though it has
- bigger environmental impact
- massive cost of manufacturing and producing the energy for it
- environmental and cultural destruction via road building
- stress on its users who often go psychotic
- stress on bystanders by noise
- devaluation of human life
- losses of limb and health
- sustained by government subsidies to keep it "affordable"

Cars are much worse than AI. ✌️

#urbanism #warOnCars

Corvid 🐦‍⬛

@nicemicro @maxleibman imo, this is an insufferable way to try to promote the cause, as someone who is pro #waroncars. AI hype is actively disrupting people's livelihoods and being promoted at us nonstop. People are mad about this issue and going "well actually, there are more important issues" in the replies of people's post isn't gonna win a lot of people over.

I'll grant that the question "why do some things which cause huge amounts of measurable harm not get the same attention as other things?" Is interesting but if you want to raise that, have some insights and make your own post.

NiceMicro 2d ago

@corvid @maxleibman well I think is interesting to compare different issues, and see how people react.

I believe it is a good post for that reason, as the OP listed things they think are bad about AI, so I can give an itemized list of what things that are also pushed down our throats by megacorps (but have been for so long we don't even notice) and see the differences / similarities is informative, and it is important to keep things in perspective.

NiceMicro 2d ago

@corvid @maxleibman also, on a more personal note, I responded to this post because it was boosted by an account who "spams" a lot of anti-AI stuff, but is also a proud "I-will-never-take-public-transit-or-ride-a-bike" car person 😅

Corvid 🐦‍⬛

@nicemicro @maxleibman since the poster and the booster are different people, replying to the post won't reach the booster 🤷‍♀️

NiceMicro 2d ago

@corvid I know. The post/reply is not for that specific person, who probably already muted me anyways.

It is intended to make anti-AI gearheads to think a bit. I find it something that might be of value, but of course you are free to disagree.

DoNotPunchDown 2d ago

@nicemicro @maxleibman

Yeah, no.

NiceMicro 2d ago

@DoNotPunchDown @maxleibman actually, yes.

How many people you know were killed by AI? because I lost people to car traffic, and every day people die in traffic violence.

It is important to keep things in perspective.

DoNotPunchDown 2d ago

@nicemicro @maxleibman

Yeah. No

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ai-spiritual-delusions-destroying-human-relationships-1235330175/

https://apnews.com/article/chatbot-ai-lawsuit-suicide-teen-artificial-intelligence-9d48adc572100822fdbc3c90d1456bd0

https://mastodon.social/@JoshuaHolland/114677842502375521

People Are Losing Loved Ones to AI-Fueled Spiritual Fantasies

Marriages and families are falling apart as people are sucked into fantasy worlds of spiritual prophecy by AI tools like OpenAI's ChatGPT

Rolling Stone

NiceMicro 1d ago

@DoNotPunchDown

39,345 left this world due to cars in 2023 in the USA alone.

you are grasping at straws.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-2023-traffic-fatalities-2024-estimates

DoNotPunchDown 1d ago

I'm grasping at straws? From someone comparing something that is new, an unknown, that is accelerating climate change that will kill tens of thousands, to car crashed?

Yeah. No.

NiceMicro 1d ago

@DoNotPunchDown the level of brainwashing the car industry did on people is astounding.

Cars have ALREADY KILLED hundreds of thousands. Those are people, who never got to meet their loved ones again because of cars. And you just ignore it as "well, I like my car so cars killing people is just 'car crashed' "... this level of dehumanization blows my mind.

And "accelerating climate change"? Have you seen what the car industry is doing and has been doing for about a century now?

🇨🇦🇩🇪🇨🇳张殿李🇨🇳🇩🇪🇨🇦1d ago

@nicemicro @DoNotPunchDown What is it about a certain breed of activist that a) tries to tie literally everything to their pet cause, and b) does it in a way that it drives even sympathetic people away from said cause.

I haven't owned a car since 2001. I use nothing but public transit with the VERY infrequent taxi here and there for those few things public transit isn't good for.

And now, just to spite you, I want to buy a V8 SUV and drive it on the highway in low gear.

Great PR there, dude!

NiceMicro 1d ago

🫶

DoNotPunchDown 23h ago

@ZDL @nicemicro

Same. I live in the city and having a car is not a necessity. Additionally, I was hit by a car and ended up in the hospital for 3 weeks.

But assuming is always easier for some. 😊✌🏻