Mastodawn

Timo Ewalds Jun 20

Look people, no matter how much we destroy the Earth by polluting it with CO₂, microplastics, PFAS, etc. everywhere, and even if AMOC shuts down and both the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets melt, the Earth will still be infinitely more habitable than Mars. Mars is a shithole and we're not going.

Anton Hunter Jun 19

Shhhhh, we just need El*n and his buddies to get on the flight...

@HunterAnton @davidho You are right, Mars will be a libertarian paradise. I just hope Elon, Bezos, Andreesen, and Thiel don't go to a colony there. We would be totally lost without them in their red-tinged Ayn Rand paradise.

Bakunin Boys Jun 22

@rrb @HunterAnton @davidho I will totally go on the second or third flight.

Michael Busch Jun 19

@HunterAnton @davidho

Planetary Protection prohibits us from inflicting Elon Musk upon the universe.

I keep writing this. It is no longer a joke.

crazyeddie Jun 20

@HunterAnton @davidho Greg Bear, in his books, anticipated "The Muskies"--a bunch of billionaires that flew to mars with gobs of equipment and promptly died. Decades later mankind is back fighting aliens and cobble some of their junk together to survive.

Arnim Sommer 🇪🇺Jun 20

@HunterAnton
This!
@davidho

MaryMarasKittenBakery Jun 20

@HunterAnton @davidho
Oh they never invented to, it was always meant for the plebs.
The poor people then either figure out how to make it habitable or aren't a great loss, from these rich assholes POV

John Maxwell Jun 19

@davidho - And, if we must terraform Mars for some incomprehensible reason, how about we practice on Earth first?
[edit to add: Not an original thought of mine, but I think it's a good one.]

@jmax @davidho jmax, I think you just described the plot to Snowpeircer.

John Maxwell Jun 19

@mel @davidho Well, sorta. I was thinking of being sensible and adopting the IPCC recommendations, but given recent history I guess you have a point.

Peter Butler Jun 19

Or the Earth’s moon? It’s a heck of a lot closer

I’ve never understood the reasoning behind Mars vs. the moon

I know the dust is terrible on the moon, but also on Mars, no?

Rolf Steinort (314.8 ppm)Jun 19

@peterbutler @jmax @davidho Seems to be even worse. Not as sharp but really corrosive.

playinginthedirt Jun 20

@peterbutler @jmax @davidho neither has an atmosphere that can screen radiation. Shielding is expensive and not 100% effective. There are some volcanic tubes on the moon that could provide some natural protection. Of course long term 1/6 G living (moon) or 2/5 G on Mars probably is a big ?

Jens Finkhäuser Jun 22

@peterbutler AFAIK no.

Moon dust is abrasive in a day that damages the lungs if inhaled. And it clings to everything. This is because it wasn't formed with water in the process.

I don't know specifically about Mars dust, but I have never heard the same about it.

Peter Butler Jun 30

@jens @jmax @davidho

Mars dust seems as bad. Perhaps less abrasive but more toxic

It’s basically poison

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/26/science/mars-toxic-dust-scli-intl

Toxic dust on Mars would present serious hazard for astronauts

Toxic dust on Mars would make a future mission to the red planet extremely hazardous for astronauts and require significant countermeasures, new research suggests.

CNN

Femme Malheureuse Jun 19

@davidho Mars is for Martians, in short. It's a perfectly lovely place FOR MARTIANS whether they are rock formations or bacteria.

I wish more people would wake up and smell the colonialism. A colonist's grand/child wants to spread colonialism off world. It stunk when colonialism spread to what is now South Africa, and it stinks eyeing up another planet.

theearthisapringle Jun 19

@davidho there’s some economic value to mars nonetheless though, like using the saberier reaction (inverse combustion) you can easily create fuels and oxygen on the surface which could be helpful for stuff in the asteroid belt and just general space exploration

That’s really long term, but even in the short term the advertising value of space is huge

Last year Columbia sportswear spent 20 million to put there logo on a lunar lander

Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC Jun 19

@theearthisapringle @davidho I don't think that is ever going to happen. The Industrial Age will collapse before we ever build any serious industry anywhere else than on Earth. We have exceeded the ecological growth limits of our planet, we're neck deep in overshoot, the entire world economy is hanging in mid air like a certain famous coyote, and eventually we will fall all the way down.
The economy is too big for the planet, and we won't be able to extend it beyond our home planet before it comes crashing down.

MaryMarasKittenBakery Jun 20

@LordCaramac @theearthisapringle @davidho
👍👍

ablobcatattention

@davidho all this obsession with Mars is honestly just billionaires looking to make Elysium into a reality

Elrick_Winter Jun 20

@Reiddragon @davidho This is my main point for being against an attempt. Imperial Capitalism will just view it as a method to escape responsibility instead of actually fixing things. We would probably need centuries to build a self sufficient settlement on mars - we don't have that for earth.

ablobcatattention

@Elrick_Winter @davidho infact, if you want to take a very hostile environment and make it suitable for large scale settlements just because you like the challenge, then we have a prime candidate right on Earth: the Sahara Desert

Plenty could be done to make it habitable; wouldn't be cheap, wouldn't be easy, wouldn't be quick, but it would def be nice to see the Sahara habitable once more (humans turned it into a desert, afterall)

ablobcatattention

@Elrick_Winter @davidho also, in a vacuum I'm actually not against research into what it would take to settle on other planets: can't deny it'd be exciting to think humans could one day venture across the stars, but much like a lot of things that hhave been hyped to hell and back in the last 15 years, the people worrking on it today don't do it out of some noble goal, but, as you said, to have an excuse to turn a blind eye to the issues here on earth

But also, even in my idea of why we should do it: mars is fucking stupid, how about we settle on the moon first? It's right here, internet would only have a few seconds of delay, and you'd only have to wait a few days for rescue if something goes wrong (compared to Mars which is so fucking far away you wouldn't be getting rescued for shit)

Quinn9282 🖥️🌙✌️Jun 19

@davidho And like, even if we did manage to solve all the problems with getting people colonized on Mars with all the resources needed to survive feasibility... at the very least it's going to be quite lonely up there with literally almost nothing to see or do on the surface of Mars other than maybe some minor research stuff or something. I imagine almost anyone would hate living on Mars, despite what they may try to claim otherwise in media coverage to try and get more financing for it. 🤷

@Quinn9282 Yep. Probably exciting for scientists specialized in relevant fields. For almost anyone else, a crashing bore leading to insanity.

Jake in the desert Jun 19

@davidho absolutely this. All that radiation, there's no way and it's a fools game. Unless we do just send all the billionaires there.

@jake4480 It would be like living on the Moon, but with hysterically longer, more expensive, and less reliable supply lines.

TobiWanKenobi Jun 19

Well, I know at least two guys who want to go there and as far as Earth is concerned, it'd be good if both migrated to Mars asap.

Frank Bennett Jun 19

@davidho I enjoy watching YouTube videos about terraforming Mars, especially in the morning. It gives me an opportunity to holler "IT'S A ROCK!" at the top of my voice. That and a cup of tea and I'm ready for action.

Toni Aittoniemi Jun 19

@davidho I’m anti-Mars

@gimulnautti @davidho
Marsist

JacobRPG Jun 19

@davidho I often think about how much easier it must be to keep Earth habitable rather than trying to make Mars habitable.

Alex 🔧🔮🌎🪿

@jaykass @davidho
The Martian atmosphere is 25,000 billion tonnes.

Humanity has emitted 2,500 billion tonnes of CO₂ here on earth - so we're 10% of the way there! (if there is a cold dead planet with barely an atmosphere)

Knightmare Jun 19

@davidho yeah, like Mars is missing a spinning core, so it can never have a breathable atmosphere or protect things from solar radiation. Not until we make tech that can make an artificial one, or remake the core and get it spinning.
The only way to have a colony on Mars is to have it underground.

@LanceJZ Well, it's possible in (very broad) theory, but it would still only be temporary. The lack of a magnetosphere will allow solar winds to blow any atmosphere we can create away within a century or less, so we'd have to keep remaking it, somehow. This is really SF, though; right now, we can only speculate broadly about it.

I agree, that underground is the only sensible option. Like living on the Moon, with slightly more gravity.

Knightmare Jun 19

@wesdym yeah, the more gravity is important though, if anyone is going to have kids, from what I understand, and bone density. Yeah, in my SciFi story I'm working on now, they have a colony built inside of Olympus Mons, they used lava tubes to get it started. Like what they did for the show, For All Mankind.

Winfried Angele 🇺🇦🇪🇺Jun 19

@davidho I completely agree. Manned missions to Mars are, in my opinion, among humanity's stupidest projects

@winfried @davidho It makes sense as a prison colony

@rrb I don't think so. Right now, we're not sure humans can survive there long-term, no matter how well supplied. The gravity is very low, and there's nothing we can do about that. We don't know what the long-term effects of that are.

@wesdym I was thinking rather a prison colony for billionaires and Musk fanatics. (i.e. Musk and people that buy into his fantasy.) It would not bother me a lot for them to suffer the consequences of their bad choices.

I did not mean it as an option for the people caught in our current industrial prison complex. Heaven forbid.

I should have been clear about that,

@rrb Oh, that's different. I fully approve of that.

@winfried I think it's reasonable in order to do some scientific things that robots can't, but I also think that's a range that will narrow as robots get better. It certainly makes sense to do as much as we can remotely; it's definitely much cheaper, for one thing.

SpaceLifeForm Jun 19

Elmo and his fascist buddies are welcome to go.

Jonathan Jun 19

Lars Marowsky-Brée 😷Jun 19

@davidho I really want Elon and all his friends to go and don't think we should discourage them in any way.

@davidho
sorry to break it to you but the Chinese are definitely going

Mrinappropriate Jun 19

@davidho Please let all the billionaires go. Now. Please.

ginoputrino Jun 19

@davidho "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time."

Musk is absolutely drooling at the thought of building a company town on Mars where citizens would have to pay him for literally everything including the air they breathe.

US taxpayers fronting up the money to do it is just icing on the cake.

Sadly there will be people fooled into selling themselves into slavery and going.

@davidho I blame popular entertainment, which has nearly always given a very false impression of what Mars is really like. It's much more like the Moon than Earth. Even if we could terraform it -- and we don't know if we can really do that, or what it will take, or how long -- it will still be small and cold with low gravity and no magnetosphere for protection. (And, currently, practically no atmosphere.) We don't know what the long-term effects of gravity that low is on humans.

MidniteMikeWrites Jun 19

@wesdym @davidho The Martian did a good job of showing how hard it’d be to survive lol. Matt Damien’s character basically loses a third of his weight.

@MidniteMikeWrites I have some very serious problems with the book and film, but I give them a pass on the soil stuff. That was plausible at the time both came out (even if much of the rest makes little or no sense). About a year after the film, we learned that Martian soils -- some, at least -- are likely toxic to anything we can plant in them.

There's much we don't know about Mars, but much of what we do know argues against colonization.

@davidho but we can still let all the billionaires go there right? we're not going to stop or discourage them?

SomeGadgetGuy Jun 19

@davidho I'm good with billionaires moving to mars. I just want them to pay their own way there.

@davidho Let them go with all their bro buddies and wait awhile; they then devolve into Lord of the Flies, then kill off each other. Many problems solved. Mars may need to call a garage service to take away the debris, but that is a small price to be rid of these parasites.

Kennyfrog Jun 19

@davidho
What did the Martians ever do for us?

@davidho
A good book I recently read on this is titled a City on Mars. Essentially it points out it is impossible for us to establish a "minimum viable population" there.

ShadSterling Jun 19

@davidho if we’re going to live independently anywhere but Earth, we need to learn how to construct a sealed ecosystem that can support a large enough population of humans to do all of the maintenance, and sustain that support for as long as it gets enough starlight to stay warm.

As of now, what we’re doing is destroying the ecosystem we started with.

If we can’t learn to maintain this ecosystem, we have no hope of living in a smaller one.

Red Hood Jun 19

@davidho
I vote we send Musk and all billionaires to Mars and call it a day. Of course, it would be a one-way trip. #eattherich

Robin Sorensen Jun 20

@davidho Should I cancel my timeshare then…?

Susie Emmanuel Jun 20