MOVED TO @if you're participating in the x11/wayland discourse, and you last used wayland seriously more than a year ago, your opinions are almost surely irrelevant
if you're linking a 5 years old discussion as an argument, you're arguing in bad faith
if you believe "x11 was fully functional in 2008 why are we replacing it", you're delusional
4censord 
@halva noone needs multiple high refreshrate displays anyways right
@4censord no one needs fractional scaling
or hdr
or proper variable refresh rate
or mixed DPIs
or proper gesture support
or desktop vsync NOT reliant on FIFO
:)
or hdr
or proper variable refresh rate
or mixed DPIs
or proper gesture support
or desktop vsync NOT reliant on FIFO
:)
@halva or no tearing
Or multi gpu support
Or multi gpu support
@halva x11 is enough ~~ram~~ display server for everyone right
kimapr@halva @4censord im not gonna comment on the rest, but what about x11’s variable refresh rate is Improper? if i run glxgears it will run at the refresh rate of whatever display it’s on. big fancy acer screen gets 75 fps, small laptop screen gets 60 fps. Same happens if i run https://www.vsynctester.com/ in chromium (firefox is broken and always runs at 75 hz)
[GARLIC] Lunya 
🧄@[email protected] @[email protected] @4censord I assume they meant freesync/gsync, not multiple screens running at different fixed refresh rates
@kimapr @luna @halva nope I'm on amd as well. My understanding was that (with explanation in https://labyrinth.zone/objects/2872fad8-ae8c-412c-b906-b0daaad47859) because of the "one large canvas with view portsdifferent refresh rates are not possible in x11 without a major rewrite
halva (@[email protected])
@kimapr @4censord x11's variable refresh rate and multidisplay are massive hacks that result in even more jank when combined the way x11 does multidisplay is by creating one large canvas that fit...
@kimapr @4censord x11's variable refresh rate and multidisplay are massive hacks that result in even more jank when combined
the way x11 does multidisplay is by creating one large canvas that fits all displays by resolution. if you have variable refresh rate enabled, it will "sync" the refresh rate of the canvas down as a whole, resulting in *all* monitors syncing down to the lowest refresh rate
if you have a game running at, say, 40 fps, your second monitor will ALSO be running at 40 hz
the way x11 does multidisplay is by creating one large canvas that fits all displays by resolution. if you have variable refresh rate enabled, it will "sync" the refresh rate of the canvas down as a whole, resulting in *all* monitors syncing down to the lowest refresh rate
if you have a game running at, say, 40 fps, your second monitor will ALSO be running at 40 hz
dubious moss [Viridi Vix]@halva wayland's good vibes and nvidia's bad vibes are mutually incompatible, thus x11 is better for my computing environment. i don't make the rules 
@vivi ive been using wayland on nvidia specifically for the past... 2 years?
it's a much better experience than x11, ESPECIALLY as of the past couple of months. nvidia seem to be practically deprecating x11 support
it's a much better experience than x11, ESPECIALLY as of the past couple of months. nvidia seem to be practically deprecating x11 support
@halva I dunno like a couple months ago some wayland grifter basically told me i was a fascist for using x11 and I didn't really know what either of those things meant and didn't care either, so I tried using wayland and all of my games under proton were just a black screen so unfortunately on that day I learned both that only x11 works for my needs even though I still really don't know what it is or does, and also that i was a fascist I guess
@vivi idk calling someone a fascist is a crazy ass take but i havent touched x11 in a few years now
even on an older intel/nvidia laptop, and my nvidia desktop. and i stream stuff on discord on my desktop lol
even on an older intel/nvidia laptop, and my nvidia desktop. and i stream stuff on discord on my desktop lol
@halva i dunno my only experience with wayland so far is that wayland fans think i am literally the worst for using x11 but also i can't figure out how to use wayland. essentially exactly the same feeling of when i couldn't figure out how to use linux and linux fans thought i was the absolute worst for using windows, until i figured out how to use linux. i'll probably figure out how to use wayland too eventually but like just right now it is a Not Working Out type of relationship 
and also probably my perspective is tainted by the loud minority where y'know i only hear the kinda meaner side of wayland users because the meaner ones have a more lasting impression than the nice ones who don't hate my entirety for using x11 i guess 
and also probably my perspective is tainted by the loud minority where y'know i only hear the kinda meaner side of wayland users because the meaner ones have a more lasting impression than the nice ones who don't hate my entirety for using x11 i guess 
korin 🔜 kodi
Christian Neubauer@halva
Evolution sucks to some.
Evolution sucks to some.
Kevin Karhan 
Same folks are the equivalent of #WindowsXP / #Winfows7 holdouts...
Kevin Karhan :verified: (@[email protected])
@[email protected] +9001% I've used @[email protected] 7.04 and @[email protected] 10.2 and *noone* wants to go back to those ages when we had #WiFi problems, had to fiddle with #nVidia drivers and #AMD was just not an option! - Same with #SystemD: #SysVinit is shit and everyone who thinks it's reasonable amto wait 5-15+ mins for a desktop to boot is even mire delusional than #Xorg fans wanting to cancel #Wayland! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo
- I can see the benefit of a miniaturized retro gaming system (I think legacy systems need to be served with properly maintained software & hardware).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P1E2vjpcRo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8WfiRRvQXo
As with #IPv4 the problem is that there is no mandate to provide users with static prefixes and I'm stuck on a /28 of IPv4's and can't even get a singoe /64.
- And before you ask: No, #Tunnelbroker is not a valid solution as HE.net's tunnel will get #USA #GeoIP'd even eith the PoP in FRA so it bricks a shitload of things due to #Geoblocking and bad #peering. Believe me, I tried that already!
TINY DOS gaming PC build guide - weeCee Part 2
@halva +9001%
I've used @ubuntu 7.04 and @opensuse 10.2 and noone wants to go back to those ages when we had #WiFi problems, had to fiddle with #nVidia drivers and #AMD was just not an option!
The Tragedy of systemd
Ambassador of the Heat Sink@kkarhan @halva @ubuntu @opensuse
#SysVinit works well, and is a problem only if you care about booting time. That's not the case of everybody.
Anyway, lots of alternatives exist nowadays: runit, open-rc, s6, etc.
All these alternatives get the best of both worlds: they remain mainly script-based, and they are much faster than SystemV.
@HeatSinkAmbassador @halva @ubuntu @opensuse Then why did #Linux standard on SystemD?
- Certainly @linuxfoundation or whoever writes the #LSB took their time re: that change and if you have ever habe to deal with huge amounts of servers, the whole benefits of the "#SystemD suite" really works well, because noone wants to deal with a shitton of filters & #syslog over
journalctl -xe …
Don't get me wrong, @OS1337 runs off a single /etc/init file..., but for an embedded distro of it's tinyness, that is acceptable.
@kkarhan @halva @ubuntu @opensuse @linuxfoundation @OS1337
They just needed to standard on something.
Doesn't mean systemd was or still is the best solution, especially since the ecosystem has been diversified since.
Many respected linuxians have settled on a non-systemd solution, and I don't think that you can accuse them of amateurism or of taking useless risks.
Moreover, systemd is not "standard" for all distros.
open-rc is the init of Gentoo (extremely respected distro) and Alpine (quite respected too). Void Linux comes with s6 by default.
@HeatSinkAmbassador yeah, but we both can agree that these distros are "rounding errors" compared to the rest just as much as #OS1337 is an anomaly compared to them.
- I don't deny the necessity to have more than 1 option at hand, but I doubt we'll see much of it going to get any foothold...
@kkarhan
I don't know honestly, maybe they just went with the mainstream trend, because that's *one* way to make a choice, and any standard solution -- even suboptimal -- would cut their distro maintenance workload in any case.
The mainstream trend was systemd, but I'd say it got popular mainly as a fad, because Pottering had RedHat to back him, and a lot of inflammatory rhetoric to make himself heard.
Now you have very respectable pundits such as Torvalds, who still think systemd has a lot to improve before getting his respect.
I don't know honestly, maybe they just went with the mainstream trend, because that's *one* way to make a choice, and any standard solution -- even suboptimal -- would cut their distro maintenance workload in any case.
The mainstream trend was systemd, but I'd say it got popular mainly as a fad, because Pottering had RedHat to back him, and a lot of inflammatory rhetoric to make himself heard.
Now you have very respectable pundits such as Torvalds, who still think systemd has a lot to improve before getting his respect.
@HeatSinkAmbassador I don't think it's that easy.
Pretty shure @linuxfoundation decided on #SystemD for a lot of good reasons.
- I just don't have their writeup at hand.
https://climatejustice.social/@HeatSinkAmbassador/114652183903211482
Ambassador of the Heat Sink (@[email protected])
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] They just needed to standard on something. Doesn't mean systemd was or still is the best solution, especially since the ecosystem has been diversified since. Many respected linuxians have settled on a non-systemd solution, and I don't think that you can accuse them of amateurism or of taking useless risks. Moreover, systemd is not "standard" for all distros. open-rc is the init of Gentoo (extremely respected distro) and Alpine (quite respected too). Void Linux comes with s6 by default.
@halva X11 is fully functional now too. Why should I replace it? Do what you want, and I get to keep using the tools I trust and with which I am familiar :)
For what is worth, I have problems trusting Wayland mainly for two reasons, that I am on an systemd-less Linux system, and that I use a lot X11 networking features.