MOVED TO @if you're participating in the x11/wayland discourse, and you last used wayland seriously more than a year ago, your opinions are almost surely irrelevant
if you're linking a 5 years old discussion as an argument, you're arguing in bad faith
if you believe "x11 was fully functional in 2008 why are we replacing it", you're delusional
Kevin Karhan 
@halva +9001%
I've used @ubuntu 7.04 and @opensuse 10.2 and noone wants to go back to those ages when we had #WiFi problems, had to fiddle with #nVidia drivers and #AMD was just not an option!
The Tragedy of systemd
Ambassador of the Heat Sink@kkarhan @halva @ubuntu @opensuse
#SysVinit works well, and is a problem only if you care about booting time. That's not the case of everybody.
Anyway, lots of alternatives exist nowadays: runit, open-rc, s6, etc.
All these alternatives get the best of both worlds: they remain mainly script-based, and they are much faster than SystemV.
@HeatSinkAmbassador @halva @ubuntu @opensuse Then why did #Linux standard on SystemD?
- Certainly @linuxfoundation or whoever writes the #LSB took their time re: that change and if you have ever habe to deal with huge amounts of servers, the whole benefits of the "#SystemD suite" really works well, because noone wants to deal with a shitton of filters & #syslog over
journalctl -xe …
Don't get me wrong, @OS1337 runs off a single /etc/init file..., but for an embedded distro of it's tinyness, that is acceptable.
@kkarhan @halva @ubuntu @opensuse @linuxfoundation @OS1337
They just needed to standard on something.
Doesn't mean systemd was or still is the best solution, especially since the ecosystem has been diversified since.
Many respected linuxians have settled on a non-systemd solution, and I don't think that you can accuse them of amateurism or of taking useless risks.
Moreover, systemd is not "standard" for all distros.
open-rc is the init of Gentoo (extremely respected distro) and Alpine (quite respected too). Void Linux comes with s6 by default.
@HeatSinkAmbassador yeah, but we both can agree that these distros are "rounding errors" compared to the rest just as much as #OS1337 is an anomaly compared to them.
- I don't deny the necessity to have more than 1 option at hand, but I doubt we'll see much of it going to get any foothold...
@kkarhan
I don't know honestly, maybe they just went with the mainstream trend, because that's *one* way to make a choice, and any standard solution -- even suboptimal -- would cut their distro maintenance workload in any case.
The mainstream trend was systemd, but I'd say it got popular mainly as a fad, because Pottering had RedHat to back him, and a lot of inflammatory rhetoric to make himself heard.
Now you have very respectable pundits such as Torvalds, who still think systemd has a lot to improve before getting his respect.
I don't know honestly, maybe they just went with the mainstream trend, because that's *one* way to make a choice, and any standard solution -- even suboptimal -- would cut their distro maintenance workload in any case.
The mainstream trend was systemd, but I'd say it got popular mainly as a fad, because Pottering had RedHat to back him, and a lot of inflammatory rhetoric to make himself heard.
Now you have very respectable pundits such as Torvalds, who still think systemd has a lot to improve before getting his respect.
@HeatSinkAmbassador I don't think it's that easy.
Pretty shure @linuxfoundation decided on #SystemD for a lot of good reasons.
- I just don't have their writeup at hand.
https://climatejustice.social/@HeatSinkAmbassador/114652183903211482
Ambassador of the Heat Sink (@[email protected])
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] They just needed to standard on something. Doesn't mean systemd was or still is the best solution, especially since the ecosystem has been diversified since. Many respected linuxians have settled on a non-systemd solution, and I don't think that you can accuse them of amateurism or of taking useless risks. Moreover, systemd is not "standard" for all distros. open-rc is the init of Gentoo (extremely respected distro) and Alpine (quite respected too). Void Linux comes with s6 by default.