Essem 
there is still no viable alternative to discord and you are kidding yourself if you say there is
regarding matrix: i should not have to fight with my chat application to be able to send a single message and have people receive it
you'll know when an alternative comes along that i'd consider viable when i release an official esmbot port for it
if you're going to reply to this thread with some other software that you think could be a viable replacement for discord then i'd prefer that you actually have experience with using discord a decent amount
no, your 1-on-1 e2ee instant messenger or irc client does not meet the criteria
one of my biggest worries is adversarial lock-in; this is a big issue with discord right now, and is part of why i don't see most clones (e.g. stoat, root, fluxer) as viable alternatives
i want to be able to trust that this won't happen, and just saying "we would never do this! ☺️" isn't enough
(this does not have to be through any one specific mechanism; any approach that improves resilience despite ownership or puts more power into the hands of users is fine in my book as long as it works well)
ChloeCrimson@esm 100% underline this sentiment
I started looking for alternatives with some friends earlier (they’re 50% of my reason to be on there) and we mostly came up empty
Yes there are some things like Mumble and TeamSpeak and Stoat but at the end of the day they’re either far away from the discord experience or only cover one aspect (say, mumble for vc)
Right now we set matrix (yes I know, bear with me) as our backdoor in case shit hits the fan.
We ended up with it because we mostly use text channels organized by topic and only occasionally sit in vc
We hope to kinda sorta replicate this with a matrix space that’s invite only and then have different channels for topics.
Far from perfect but the best we came up with considering our usage and requirements
Would love to hear everyone‘s ideas on this because I think so too, that experience-wise discord has a very polished, all-round user experience that’s very hard to match
I started looking for alternatives with some friends earlier (they’re 50% of my reason to be on there) and we mostly came up empty
Yes there are some things like Mumble and TeamSpeak and Stoat but at the end of the day they’re either far away from the discord experience or only cover one aspect (say, mumble for vc)
Right now we set matrix (yes I know, bear with me) as our backdoor in case shit hits the fan.
We ended up with it because we mostly use text channels organized by topic and only occasionally sit in vc
We hope to kinda sorta replicate this with a matrix space that’s invite only and then have different channels for topics.
Far from perfect but the best we came up with considering our usage and requirements
Would love to hear everyone‘s ideas on this because I think so too, that experience-wise discord has a very polished, all-round user experience that’s very hard to match
Diego Assustado@esm what does adversarial lock-in mean?
@diegovsky effectively having everything (e.g. identity, chats) being stuck under the control of a single, large entity, without any way to change that which doesn't involve losing everything in the process
Rexo the Trams Tram 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚊@esm maybe I'm just burnt by Matrix but is federated chat even viable or (frankly) worthwhile? I think "people get my messages in a decent timeframe and can read them" is a higher priority for most.
I have, however, been somewhat intrigued by suggestions of like, half federation (accounts being a separate thing)??? maybe??? or heck if someone can actually get federation to work then sure if nothing else so the people desperate for it stop complaining but I'm just skeptical of it actually working
I have, however, been somewhat intrigued by suggestions of like, half federation (accounts being a separate thing)??? maybe??? or heck if someone can actually get federation to work then sure if nothing else so the people desperate for it stop complaining but I'm just skeptical of it actually working
kopper 
@rexo @esm yeah i personally believe having "guilds" be centralized (but accounts federated) is the best tradeoff in the current day. matrix is trying to go way too far and failing. xmpp has the right architecture and could likely be made to work, but today at least the feature set among most clients are lacking.
sammypanda@esm fluxer intends to do federation and self hosting, so worth seeing what that looks like
i do think governance though matters, like if you got all ur funding from the worst people who want returns or you go IPO and do that but on a large scale, then it'll reflect. So i think it depends where the money is coming from and the ethos, Blender is a good example.
But, i agree, designing to foundationally resist the issue is def best.
@sammypanda i still feel quite iffy about fluxer, but parts of it seem intriguing; i just made an account since a friend circle i'm part of also decided to take a look
will i feel confident enough in it to port my software to it? we'll see
@esm from discord?
eblu@esm Clearly we need something that doesn't rely on a single server, communicates directly between devices, and supports group chats. That's why I'm pitching that we all switch to PictoChat
det (θΔ)@esm has stoat ever come up on your radar? it has pretty solid feature parity with discord last i checked (which, tbf, was when i was using discord, which was years ago)
it also has options to self host your own homeserver and federate with others i believe, but the main option that is most apparent and that id imagine most folks, use is the server run by the devs of the application itself, making onboarding others much simpler
i could be wrong on some details, but thats the general gist i believe?
i also do agree matrix is not a viable alternative to discord, though for me thats because it reads moreso as an irc clone than a discord clone with its much stronger focus on singular room than servers with several rooms, as well as its much stronger focus on decentralization
i am really unsure how the idea that matrix is a discord alternative came to be, probably by folks who havent used irc before actually lol
it also has options to self host your own homeserver and federate with others i believe, but the main option that is most apparent and that id imagine most folks, use is the server run by the devs of the application itself, making onboarding others much simpler
i could be wrong on some details, but thats the general gist i believe?
i also do agree matrix is not a viable alternative to discord, though for me thats because it reads moreso as an irc clone than a discord clone with its much stronger focus on singular room than servers with several rooms, as well as its much stronger focus on decentralization
i am really unsure how the idea that matrix is a discord alternative came to be, probably by folks who havent used irc before actually lol
@det stoat does not have federation last i checked, and it's already been talked about quite a bit in the replies to this thread
@esm oh i
didnt notice the first post on this thread has
36 fucking replies holy shit
you upset fucking everyone by saying theres not alternative to discord, holy shittt
(or maybe its not anger driven idk i havent scrolled it yet)
also lemme fact check on stoat and federation rq...
...
doesnt seem like its a feature yet, seems like theres discussion on such a feature being added in the future, but for the time being its just, not there (https://github.com/orgs/stoatchat/discussions/103)
darn
well, i suppose i can also mention fluxer, one of my friends is suuuper into it rn even if it reads as a bit, shaky, to me
gives me vibes similar to bluesky is a very very negative way
regardless, i know it has federation either implemented or on the upcoming feature pipeline, and overall seems like
a literal discord clone
so im unsure if that ever came up in the massive thread you have here, but if not
theres something
didnt notice the first post on this thread has
36 fucking replies holy shit
you upset fucking everyone by saying theres not alternative to discord, holy shittt
(or maybe its not anger driven idk i havent scrolled it yet)
also lemme fact check on stoat and federation rq...
...
doesnt seem like its a feature yet, seems like theres discussion on such a feature being added in the future, but for the time being its just, not there (https://github.com/orgs/stoatchat/discussions/103)
darn
well, i suppose i can also mention fluxer, one of my friends is suuuper into it rn even if it reads as a bit, shaky, to me
gives me vibes similar to bluesky is a very very negative way
regardless, i know it has federation either implemented or on the upcoming feature pipeline, and overall seems like
a literal discord clone
so im unsure if that ever came up in the massive thread you have here, but if not
theres something
Senil@esm @det I have seen them discuss the possibility should stuff like polyproto or similar get off the ground (they do seem to want that nomadic identity if they go that route, so any one server dying isn't game over) but it's definitely nowhere on their development radar until something gets to a functional state that would Just Work for their needs.
Ranid
starfrost