erikjohansson
Sy HoekstraBeing #blind is fun. Just encountered a visual captcha with no audio option. So I used JAWS Picture Smart to get AI to read me the text of the visual clue, which I typed in and got through. So basically I'm a human who needs a robot to prove to another robot that I am not a robot. Without my robot, the other robot would have thought I was a robot. Also I was trying to make a payment on my PAP machine, which really should in itself indicate that I am not a robot. #Disability #Disabled
Allan Chow@SyHoekstra robuts.
adamrice@SyHoekstra Robots are notorious deadbeats.
@adamrice Oh just *constantly* writing checks they can’t cash. Everybody knows it
villon@SyHoekstra
I feel very much with you, as Fediverse has sensitized me to look at people with different abilities and to think about their needs.
I feel very much with you, as Fediverse has sensitized me to look at people with different abilities and to think about their needs.
The Evil Chocolate Cookie@SyHoekstra do you think that option might help me get my eyes cast server back up and running? I can’t use it because the hosting provider decided to use an image only OCR proof captcha with no audio option. You have to solve the darn capture to do literally anything, up to it, including starting your Dhar server.
@evilcookies98 That sucks… But yeah, it could. You could also take a screenshot and try any number of free options, like Be My AI. I would even try pulling it up on your computer and using Gemini live stream from your phone
@SyHoekstra true. Fortunately, I’ve got a jaws license so picture Mart is an option.
Jesse@SyHoekstra And the whole point of that robot is that robots shouldn't be able to out-robot the robot, but if a robot can out-robot the robot then what's the point of the robot?
@JesseF8693 Precisely
AdamMaybe worth naming and shaming the captcha provider and the service using it, so others know what to avoid or where to complain?
@adamsaidsomething That is probably worth it, but I did not catch the providers name unfortunately
aspragg@adamsaidsomething @SyHoekstra What, and hope that the robot makers make the robot “better”, so the other robot *can’t* help the human prove to the robot that they’re not a robot? Do you want the human to not be able to make payments for their breathing rob^Wmachine? 😉
Hoping that the robot makers actually include an audio version of the captcha, but fair point, if the robot makers just decided to make the captcha even harder that would suck
Estarriol, Terrorist Dragon@SyHoekstra this is the insanity we live in.
Tarren (They/Them)@SyHoekstra Ummmmm, yeah. I have yet to know of a robot that, er, needed help breathing.
@Tarrenvane Lol yes. Also, if a robot paid for my machine, who is going to complain?
BeldarakMeanwhile, at META: "WE NEED MORE BOTS!"
@Beldarak The lesson to take from my story is we need to produce as many robots as possible to solve the problems caused by the other robots we have produced
bojkotiMalbona@SyHoekstra @Beldarak Indeed that’s the hope your story gave me. I have refused to solve CAPTCHAs for over a decade now. Can’t wait for the day when browsers simply defeat the CAPTCHA for you.
It was disturbing to find that the #ImageMagick support forum has a policy to refuse to help people trying to use IM to solve #CAPTCHA. They don’t understand that the CAPTCHAs themselves are the problem, blinded by the false idea that anti-robot is somehow pro-human.
Martijn VosThose captchas need to die. It was a stupid idea in the first place, and now AI is better at them than we are, so they've become completely pointless.
I try to avoid most sites using them, but some sites that really don't need them, still use them. Like webshops. If you make it hard for me to spend my money, I'll spend it elsewhere. But sometimes a site you absolutely need still uses one, and then what?
Sablebadger@SyHoekstra are you SURE you're not a robot? Not even a little bit? :)
@Sablebadger I mean the robot said I’m not…
Bellison22@SyHoekstra you may be blind but you sure are clever
nshiell@SyHoekstra as a guy that makes websites, this is very annoying. Well done for bypassing it with an AI though
HarmonicaPlayer@SyHoekstra wow had no clue that picture smart was smart enough to read a captchha with no audio opption wow :)
@HarmonicaPlayer I didn’t either until today
@SyHoekstra congrads you got lucky :)
Brokar@SyHoekstra There were two very interesting talks by Casey Kreer on the 38c3 concerning accessibility of websites and apps for disabled people.
https://media.ccc.de/v/38c3-software-accessibility-without-the-fuzz
Software accessibility without the fuzz
the hatter@SyHoekstra it was always a weird balance, when from basically day 2 of captchas we were using humans to train robots to read things that robots couldn't currently read. Given the humans read it incorrectly a lot of the time, it was never hard to get a robot to give the right answer in an acceptable number of tries.
AskPippa🇨🇦@SyHoekstra Frustrating.
Tiny Gamer AlecWoooow. Just wow. Every time I think those stupid things can't get worse, I get reminded that half the time they don't even use basic accessibility options and I get angry again.
CyberFrog@SyHoekstra so sick of these ineffective barriers being placed around the web, and all the silly ways real people doing real stuff with their life have to work around them, instead of just being able to access information and services openly smh
@froge @SyHoekstra I blame the people who SOLVE the #CAPTCHAs. It is those people who enable #CAPTCHA proliferation.
secretsloth@SyHoekstra robot verified human ✅ what a world 😅
Large Heydon Collider@SyHoekstra To add another layer of absurdity: The CAPTCHA robot primarily exists to train robots on how to judge imagery like a human being.
MJ Ray@heydon @SyHoekstra and another layer of absurdity: I'm a sighted human (for now) so don't have JAWS or similar set up, but atypical colour perception means I fail many visual tests mislabelled as "captcha". So a decent robot trained on those images is more likely to pass than this human! The world has lost the plot...
Gaysis@SyHoekstra The core issue seems that Captchas were invented under the assumption that bots/AI are generally bad and have to be banned, while in the real world they are also being used as accessibility tools. We need to completely rethink the bot/AI problem.
Vysogota@SyHoekstra the other day there was a post on hacker news with a poc of a Doom captcha. You had to kill three monsters to pass it.
What a great way to protect your site from blind people huh?
@Dileo I used another robot to explain to me that this is a picture of a robot being asked by another robot to prove that it’s not a robot
Woozle Hypertwin@SyHoekstra You needed a robot to prove to another robot that you're a human who needed to make a payment on yet another robot.
Seems like time to put Asimov's 3 laws of robotics into the legal code -- I'd think that captchas you can't solve violate both the first and second.
@woozle Arguably, if they piss us off so much that we get rid of them, they also violated the third
Haelwenn /элвэн/ 
@SyHoekstra Heh reminds me that I tend to call them cyborg tests because most captchas these days will also try to scan your browser (Google ReCaptcha and Cloudflare does that), so that's like an extra cyborg version of it. ^^
John Maxwell@SyHoekstra - More of a cyborg.
David Sheneman
turlup1@SyHoekstra
Cpatcha to prove that you are able to use robot... Goal versus facts
Cpatcha to prove that you are able to use robot... Goal versus facts
@SyHoekstra you would think that medical equipment companies would be just fine with robots paying for medical devices.
@SyHoekstra Ah, this is where blindness gets weird.
Matt HallYeah, I just quick-looped through three cycles of frustration-fury-despair.
I despise this timeline.
@401matthall Oh no! I do find myself a lot of times being lighthearted and jokey about every day blind stuff, and then people respond like “WHAT????!!!”
That's a great attitude to have and I respect the hell out of it. It just feels like some of this shouldn't be _everyday_ blind stuff.
@401matthall Oh I totally agree, and I definitely get angry about it a lot. I just sometimes forget how unfamiliar it is to other people so a lot of times I’m laughing and other people are mad
VulcanTouristA Cylon might need a CPAP machine.
@VulcanTourist I will be honest I Googled this one. Always meant to watch BSG but never got around to it
My wife and I are watching it again just now. I don't know how well it can "play" for a sightless person.
I don't think I persisted to the end the first time, so eventually some of it might be entirely new. I'm of course referring to the 2004 remake, but I did fully watch the original as a teenager. There is good and bad with the liberties taken by the remake.
@VulcanTourist Oh I have access to the audio description track, so it should be fine to watch. I just haven’t gotten around to it
I find myself rooting for the fortunes of both some of the ill-fated humans as well as a few of the enlightened Cylons.
RealGravitas -Citizen Saboteur@SyHoekstra You win the internet today!