This seems so science-fictiony that most people won't take it seriously. That would be a bad mistake.

Not only are we messing up the planet, we're also inadvertently shutting our door to space. When we're shut in, we're probably shut in for ever.

And when I say "we" are shutting that door, I mean mainly Musk.

https://robertvanwey.substack.com/p/the-imminence-of-the-destruction

The Imminence of the Destruction of the Space Program

New calculations put the date much closer than we should be comfortable with

The Evidence Files

@gleick @nyrath

An unchecked collisional cascade in low orbit would not shut down access to space.

It would simply make those orbits unusable for years or decades; until enough of the debris had fallen out of the sky.

That would be quite bad enough.

I keep making this point because the difference matters for things like GPS and weather satellites; as well as space exploration.

@gleick And the Chinese who have their own plans for a mega Starlink like comm satellite constellation.
@gleick "inadvertent" would imply the rich asshole hasn't been advised of this, but he most assuredly has :/
@gleick sorry to nitpick. we are furious about the whole thing
@gleick We can watch the game of Minesweeper play out overhead.

@gleick

"A Grand Challenge

My friends, the simple truth is that we are wasting our precious time, resources, intellect, and passion. As a species we are just as aimless today as when our primitive ancestors first ventured out upon this earth.

Today I am proposing that for the first time in human history, we change that.

Radically.

More than any time in history, humanity needs a grand challenge. Not only to avert its extinction, but also to indelibly etch the common bond of mutual reliance and cooperation on current and future generations.

Fortunately, all of the forces that now seem to conspire against us can quickly be turned to our advantage.

For the first time in human history we actually possess technologies so advanced that any physical problem can potentially be solved.

And yet, I wonder, do we possess the will and wisdom to utilize them for our salvation instead of our destruction?

I propose that we find out.

So today I offer you a radical and stark choice between two future realities.

An aimless future of continued war and conflict, with all its accompanying suffering and death; or a limitless future dedicated to defeating suffering and death itself, with all its accompanying technological advancement and social evolution.

Yes indeed, I have a new plan, for all of you. A plan of hope. A plan of adventure. A plan of such extraordinary magnitude as to take the breath, and challenge the senses, of all who would consider it. A plan to bind our common people in hope, and finally free our conscience for noble purpose.

I propose that in the next three decades we at last end the scourge of human disease upon this Earth, and begin the inevitable adventure of humanity's migration beyond it.

We shall at last unlock the fundamental secrets of our biology so we may conquer any illness or defect at will, and we shall free ourselves from the bonds of our native home so we may evade global calamities, and begin the expansion of our species beyond this world.

No longer shall our survival be dependent upon the random and dispassionate forces of nature. No longer shall we quiver in anguish as we helplessly watch those we love suffer and die in agony from an endless list of human disease and dysfunction. No longer shall our globe be divided in constant turmoil and conflict while the hammer of fate hangs precariously balanced over all we know and love.

We shall at last take control of our future, our fate, and ourselves.

No other endeavor ever attempted by humankind will require more genius, dedication, compassion, and sacrifice.

And no other endeavor ever attempted by humankind will be more vital to the continued existence of our species.

I understand that for many this may initially seem like pure science fiction. This is to be expected since the scales of the threats we face reside within the scope of what we have always considered to be science fiction. However, in reality, all of these goals are well within our technological reach. They are the quickest, and I believe only, way for our species to battle both the physical and societal threats that will continue to confront us."
SearingTruth, A Future of the Brave, 2005

@gleick Fortunately Xi will be able to quote the many occasions that Space Force declared loudly that Commercial Space was part of their team as the reason why China #MowsOrbit
@gleick So how do we mitigate the debris field, either collect it or use gravity to consolidate it?
@gleick it’s not that most people don’t take it seriously because it’s science fiction, most people don’t take it seriously because it doesn’t effect us. “Most people” don’t ever launch anything into space, many never get to see true dark skies, most don’t have the time to watch the skies even if they could just look up. This is a 1% caused problem that can only be solved by the 1%
@passwordsarehard4 You’re missing the point. Everyone now depends on satellites for communication, weather, local services, and more.
@gleick there was an entire episode of The Anderson’s U.F.O. Back in 1970 about space junk and cleaning it up.

@MishaVanMollusq @gleick

And a very well regarded anime, whose opening credits Star Trek Enterprise ripped off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfJLmtlolr4

#Planetes #GarbageMenInSpace

Planetes OP 「Dive In The Sky」 1080p

YouTube
@CrypticMirror @gleick oh it does look like the opening for Enterprise doesn’t it
@gleick Ain’t deregulation grand - until someone has to come long and clean up the poop.
@gleick I'm not convinced shutting the door isn't a good thing. It completely cuts off both the TESCREAList narrative about "good of the future trillions of human minds across the galaxy at the expense of every real person here now except the billionaires" and the prospects of space capitalism. We don't need space; it's awesome to explore but not essential to survival or happiness.
@gleick Just tanking SpaceX stock to $0 seems worth it.
@dalias @gleick we really do need GPS and satellite communications relays for modern society to function without serious redesign (which we could do, yes, but it would be quite traumatic)
@aburka @gleick It'd be a strain for them to break but we'd be fine. Eliminating satellite TV etc would be excellent. Satellite internet except starlink is too lagged to be useful anyway.
@dalias that feels wrong to us, emotionally, but we don't have a principled argument
@dalias weather satellites are the really big thing that ground-based tech is considerably less useful for, so there's that
@dalias but it's not really about the practical concerns to us
@ireneista To me it is. I love space, space exploration, Voyager, Mars rovers, etc. But I love humanity and the hopes of us overcoming capitalist-fascism more, and would be gladly willing to give up space if that's what it took to drive it home to everyone that we have to learn to live together here not chase billionaires' scam-fantasies about colonizing space.
@dalias but think, like, hundreds of years ahead... is that actually the way it will play out? we don't think it is, we don't see why it would be

@dalias space exploration drove imagination in the 20th century, and pushed back against religion-driven conservativism to an astonishing degree, because it was new and involved a fundamental change to how humanity conceptualizes itself

but given time any social force becomes, you know... old and less exciting

@dalias one way or another space exploration is unlikely to be thought of as transformative even fifty years from now. yes, that is sad, and honestly a condemnation of humanity's choices and priorities. one way or another there will be a society, and the dedicated dickheads will use the dominant social forces of that society to their advantage.
@dalias we appreciate the poetry of feeling like this sacrifice of space could have a benefit, but we just don't see why it would work that way
@ireneista Hundreds of years from now we're either going to be extinct or still living here on earth. The idea of colonizing space is utter nonsense. It's less habitable and appealing than living on the bottom of the oceans. Sci-fi entirely ignores the vastness, harshness, and hostility of space, and the reality of relativity.
@dalias yes, we agree with that
@dalias the difference between the scenarios would largely be about the viability of science missions

@ireneista @dalias Navigation is a big one. Especially in dense forest, over open ocean, in bad weather, etc. GPS makes things much much better.

On the plus side, GPS birds live high enough up that they're unlikely to be affected by LEO clutter. The big concern is during launch and orbital insertion, when you're still down low. But it's unlikely we'd reach a truly apocalyptic Kessler situation where LEO is so full of debris you're guaranteed to be struck within minutes. Just "lifetimes are unacceptably short".

So you might need a slightly more energetic booster to lift it up to the working orbit quickly so it doesn't spend too long in Kessler-land, and might lose a few percent of your replacement GPS craft to impacts on the way up, but it wouldn't be a complete denial of higher orbits.

@azonenberg @ireneista That makes it sound more appealing to me - preserving navigation and still having the ability to launch autonomous things, but having "humans going into space" become unacceptably risky to the point of ruling it out.

@dalias @ireneista There is legitimately interesting science that can be done by human-staffed bases, which is much more difficult to do with fully autonomous vehicles (in particular, the ability to service equipment to extend its lifespan).

I would really like to see a lunar setup similar to Antarctica - obviously unfit for large scale human habitation and dependent on supplies from earth, but a handful of scientists rotating in and out year round.

Self sufficiency is never going to happen, of course - that's a billionaire's pipe dream.

@ireneista @dalias correct me if I'm wrong, most weather satellites are usually in geostationary orbits at around 35,000 km.
@pewnack @dalias sure, and how are we going to conduct repairs or launch new ones?

@ireneista @dalias

Well, yeah. A tad difficult.

@pewnack @dalias would that it were otherwise :/

@gleick Musk's satellites have already pretty much ruined terrestrial astronomy, and when the others start launching their "constellations" (!) we may arrive at the Kessler scenario a lot sooner than previous worst estimates. So some of the competitors are likely to be stopped before they get any serious numbers into LEO.

All of these projects are a land grabs (space grabs?) -- and no one in the U.S. government seems to have a clue about why it is a terrible idea to give it all to Musk.

@dangillmor @gleick

Reminds me that I need to re-read the Rock Rats series by Ben Bova

@dangillmor @gleick What is the expected lifetime of Starlink satellites before their orbits decay and they burn up?
@karlauerbach Not sure, but I don't trust anything he says in any case. @gleick
@dangillmor @gleick I want a policy that requires safely removing an old satellite from orbit before launching each new one, *at a minimum*. Does spacex even have a plan or method of safely retrieving them?

@jamesmarshall @dangillmor @gleick
@dalias

The other bad news is that some of the first ones are already falling. They are disposable with an expected life less than 10 years. They are supposed to burn up in the atmosphere (heavy metal badness) but have also fallen as dangerous junk.

The other bad news is that two other countries have a couple ten-thousand they plan to launch.

These have great visualizations:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/satellite-space-junk-havoc-stratosphere

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/interactive/2024/space-trash-debris-spacex/

Satellite space junk might wreak havoc on the stratosphere

Hundreds of defunct satellites plunge toward Earth every year. Scientists are studying how the chemical stew left in their wake impacts the atmosphere.

Science News
@dangillmor @gleick Perhaps we should warn in the same way on this issue and on climate issues. If the Kessler scenario happens sooner, perhaps the skeptics on climate issues will be convinced, as it will be proven that they were wrong to be skeptics on the Kessler scenario.
Already sounds as desperate as I feel in various discussions with politicians and journalists.
@gleick see the manga planetes for related orbital junk centered storyline
@gleick as I understand it, Starlink should all deorbit in just a few years after failure, they have an engine to keep them in orbit, and to deorbit if they fail. It's the stuff in slightly higher orbits that are probably the risk.
@gleick I legitimately worry that musk is going to play a major part in driving us to extinction.

@gleick what if I told you that is #Musk's plan all among?

@kkarhan @gleick What would be the point of that? How would he send resupply rockets to his Mars colony if he can't launch rockets?

@uastronomer @gleick He doesn't!

He kinda expects to either "choose the terms of his death" or merely be an asshole.

  • Or he's so utterly deranged to believe he can pull of a "The Martian" IRL...
@gleick @uk_csi All for his greed, and sod the rest of us.
@gleick A good start might be to launch Musk into a rapidly decaying orbit.
@gleick I have long suspected that Musk has a phobia of being trapped in dangerous enclosed spaces, and he deals with it by putting other people into such places. His cars, the rocket ships, the tunnels, that stupid cave rescue pod. But I never expected he'd try to trap THE ENTIRE PLANET.
@gleick I still think it'll be China or Russia who actually topple the dominoes Lonnie has set up so nicely for them. It'd be a nice and easy way for them to deny the West their massive military advantage and put the emphasis back on sheer numbers of bodies on the ground.
@gleick The more I think about Starlink causing an incident, accidental or deliberate, that deprives humanity of access to space, the more like a Bond villain Musk looks.

@gleick

I might take it more seriously if it appeared in an actual science periodical, and not a substack.

Satellittes do move very fast, but they are mostly launched in the same direction (East), so their relative speeds are not necessarily high.

GPS generally uses MEO , so what happens in LEO wouldn't impact it.

Musk's Starlink satellites come down within 5 years! To maintain the network, he has to keep launching them!

@gleick @acm_redfox Maybe Melon Tusk can invent an orbital garbage collection service.