Mastodawn

Paul Kleinschmidt Nov 19, 2024

This is the peak of bicycle technology.

It's a bike which a local customer brought around yesterday because it's been a few years and she thought it was about time that someone had a look at it.

I know it looks terribly old fashioned, but hear me out:

This is a reasonably light-weight, efficient bike, with effective gearing and brakes. Nothing on it is unmaintainable.

This bike came out of the factory in 1982 (May 1982 according to the stamp on the rear hub). It has admittedly had a fairly good life, always having been kept indoors, but it's been ridden a lot yet needed almost no work.

The front rack had a broken non-essential part which I removed. The rubber strap / snelbinder over the rear carrier rack was broken so I replaced it, and the skirtguards were perished and falling apart so I replaced those as well. Otherwise, I've just checked that things were working and added a bit of oil. One of the pedals was running roughly until I oiled it.

Bike shops don't sell bicycles like this any more. Modern bicycles are not designed to last a whole lifetime, like these were.

https://www.dutchbikebits.com
#bicycle #BikeTooter #cycling #repairability #righttorepair #netherlands #ProperBicycle #NotAnEBike #dutchbikebits

David Hembrow Nov 19, 2024

The frame is made of steel with really nice lugs and good quality brazing and very good paint. There is no rust anywhere. The mudguards are probably stainless steel. Again, there's no rust. Other parts are aluminium, and of course there's a bit of plastic and rubber.

I can still buy all the inexpensive parts I need to repair this bike, but I can't get the parts required to repair some modern bikes. Electric bicycles in particular become completely unmaintainable after a few years so I usually can't help people with those. But if you have one of these lovely old bikes and you take a bit of care of it, it'll last your whole life.

This is the level of reliability we should demand from manufacturers of everything that we buy.

Pepijn Nov 19, 2024

Excellent. It's just a couple months younger than me 🙂

Do you reckon the brakes are original?

David Hembrow Nov 19, 2024

@Pepijn I think the handlebars and brake levers have been replaced at some point in the past. The brakes themselves are definitely original - that's where the date stamps are.

Pepijn Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow Impressive (I just read your ALT text as well). I never realized the sturmy archers would last that long without losing braking power.

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Nov 19, 2024

@Pepijn @hembrow
I had a 1949 Sturmey Archer coaster hub 3 speed hub (AWC) that was still working perfectly until I took it off the bike I'd had since 1972 recently

Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow
The story of this bike is interesting as you are talking about bikes built to last.

I'd got into cycling at 15 year old when my bike was stolen from school
A workmate of my father's offered me his bike for £5. I wasn't impressed with hub gears but it was an offer I couldn't refuse.
I lived in Tottenham, North London - and to me, Hetchins was just another bike shop. Little did I know!

That bike had been built by Alf Hetchins in 1946 using pre-war frame components for the man I'd bought it from. He had lost one hand in the war hence the coaster hub brake (although it did have two functioning rim brakes as well).

My #Hetchins bike took me on club runs and on tours through England, Wales & France.

About 15 years ago I had the frame properly resprayed and had as many of the original parts refurbished as I could.
It's not a great example of the marque but it's mine!

I still ride it occasionally - for the first 10 minutes it's dreadful after that it's wonderful!

David Hembrow Nov 19, 2024

@MikeFromLFE Wonderful! Hetchins bikes have a great reputation. One of the really excellent old UK cycles. When I lived in the UK (we left 17 years ago) I had an old Holdsworth from 1948. Another really nicely built frame. Brakes were the original light weight hidunium type, the first aluminium brakes ever made sfaik. They were made of recycled spitfires (or so I liked to think ;-)

dorotaC Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow In my experience, there's a certain age of the bike where bike shops will refuse to repair them, so having a simple bike isn't always so great.

I guess there are higher earnings to be made on newer bikes, so shops with lots of customers don't need to bother.

David Hembrow Nov 19, 2024

@dcz They're not very profitable. Therefore, no "normal" bike shop is interested in a bike like this, except as something to trade in and scrap so they can sell you something far less reliable. But I'll always look at them and repair them.

szakib Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow @dcz Every good bike shop has at least one guy who thinks like this. :)

David Hembrow Nov 19, 2024

@szakib I hope so. @dcz

Virginia Holloway Nov 19, 2024

@dcz @hembrow I’d say if you bring in a bike like this and the shop tells you need a “new one”, they must mean a new shop, not a new bike.

dorotaC Nov 19, 2024

@VirginiaHolloway @hembrow Bummer if that's the only shop you can walk to.

Virginia Holloway Nov 19, 2024

@dcz @hembrow That is certainly true. I know this suggestion may not be helpful for everyone, but one advantage of these older bikes is that the maintenance required is often possible to do without a lot of specialized knowledge or tools. One might also have a neighbor who is the "bike guy" or "bike gal" who would have those tools and knowledge without running an actual shop.

dorotaC Nov 19, 2024

@VirginiaHolloway @hembrow That's what I did: I bought (used) tools and decided to learn myself. So far, so good, but it did cost me time and effort.

That solution is not for everyone, and everyone knows it, so there are community "repair cafés" in my part of the world where random people will help you fix your stuff.

Ted Johnson Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow Occasionally I see bikes like this on the road in Madagascar. And when I see one I assume that someone in a richer country discarded the bike for something newer and flashier.

jan Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow Brilliant to see this and read your posts! I used to have a very similar Peugeot steel bike from the 1980s and it was virtually indestructible. Served me well with very little to service and despite the weight of the components (cp to modern ones) it felt very nimble. It's since been passed on in the family and still rolls and rolls and rolls.

Virginia Holloway Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow One of my favorite thing about bikes is these old ones like this that are fundamentally as good as they day they were made. I have a few 50+ year old bikes and they are so well built.

Hans van Schoot Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow they do not make them like that anymore indeed. 20y old Koga bikes are also a good find in this category.
However if you are looking for a more recent take on this, have a look at the "batavus winner". It is probably a bit heavier, but it is build to last (unlike many other batavus models nowadays). Mine is now 9 years old and except for tires, pedals, seat and kickstand (I wanted a dual-legged model) fully original.

hyakinthos Nov 20, 2024

@hansvschoot
There are some efforts to make sustainable bicycles -- in response to landfills getting filled with cheap Chinese bikes with parts compatibility issues.

Related article:

https://web.archive.org/web/20240523124708/https://www.resilience.org/stories/2023-05-08/can-we-make-bicycles-sustainable-again/

Thread:

slrpnk.net/post/3235018

@hembrow @frauxirah

Hans van Schoot Nov 20, 2024

@hyakinthos @hembrow @frauxirah interesting piece, ty.
Have you also seen the buffalo bicycle project? https://buffaloride.org/buffalobicycle
They make almost indestructible bikes that are extremely repairable. Completely different from what we usually see in 1st world countries. Berm peak (YouTube) did a video about it that was quite fun.

Intrepid Buffalo Bicycle Ride

Get fit for good

hyakinthos Nov 20, 2024

@hansvschoot Thanks for pointing them out.. I was unaware of them.

@hembrow @frauxirah

Robert van W Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow great brand, probably handmade by the master himself mr Bustraan in Amsterdam, Westerstraat. Although the brand name was partially sold to a bigger factory, this one has all the marks

eswillwalker Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow I have a bike like that. I bought it in 1976 and it still rolls. I love that bike.

plactagonic Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow I ride a lot so I considered repairing old mum's Favorit (for more utility rides). It would need a lot of care (my brother made from 2 of these bikes 1) so missing derailleur and wheels everything else looks OK.

But I am hooked to try #recumbent bike and I am in contact with guy who may sell Azub MINI. Favorit will wait.

Albert Cardona Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow If it won't last a lifetime it's not worth manufacturing or buying is a motto I could live by.

Gemma ⭐️🔰🇺🇸 🇵🇭 🎐Nov 20, 2024

@hembrow The early 1980s is the beginning of the era when bicycle parts finally more or less standardized, so that we no longer had to deal with so many competing threading and size standards, making replacement parts much easier to come by. From about then up to about 2000 is the golden age of quality steel bicycles, beyond 2000 they get a lot more rare.

Marcos Dione Nov 20, 2024

@hembrow "Electric bicycles in particular become completely unmaintainable after a few years so I usually can't help people with those". What about electric kits? We electrified a Yuba Kombi (which probably qualifies as proprietary) with a Virvolt kit, and we already replaced some parts of that, but now I wonder how smart was choosing those two brands.

David Hembrow Nov 20, 2024

@mdione I've no experience with either of those brands so I can't comment on them specifically.

I doubt that any electric bike conversion kit can be expected to have a very long lifespan. But if you keep all the old parts you can of course convert the bike back.

One of the problems with modern bikes built with motors at the factory is they're becoming so incredibly chunky and inefficient. They're half way to being motorbikes and not something you'd ever want to pedal without a motor running.

hyakinthos Nov 21, 2024

@mdione
The kits certainly bring some future proofness because you can always simply remove them in the worst case.

The batteries on the kits are likely still an proprietary mess, but the bottom of this article brings up a possible emerging sustainable solution (the #infiniteBattery):

https://www.ifixit.com/News/101675/bike-manufacturers-are-making-bikes-less-repairable

I would look for a kit that can use the Infinite Battery.
@hembrow

Bike Manufacturers Are Making Bikes Less Repairable

Just like cars, tractors, computers, and seemingly every other product category, bikes—and especially e-bikes—are going all black box on us.

iFixit

David Hembrow Nov 21, 2024

@hyakinthos Unfortunately, the most likely outcome of will be that this gives another "standard" to choose from, next to the other proprietary batteries.

It's also still a very expensive replacement part ($330/€430/€317 depending where I look on their indiegogo page), which means it won't help to repair old bikes because few owners find it economically viable to spend more than the value of an old bike on a part. In any case, when e-bikes fail it's often not the battery, but the electronics, wiring harness or motor. So being able to buy a battery doesn't get us that far.

E-bikes are poisoning the second hand bicycle market. They drive up the price of new machines so that fewer are sold at the same time as leaving us after just a few years with a stack of "bikes" which can no longer be ridden or repaired. I worry about the future of mass-cycling, which has always depended on a good supply of second hand machines because most people can't spend 1000s on new bikes. I've pointed this out for some time now. e.g. here:
https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2022/03/the-challenge-of-declining-bicycle.html

Note that my article from early 2022 is actually older than the discontinued older model of the "infinite" battery, which was called "Pony". They clearly have a very different idea of what a long product lifespan is than I do !
@mdione

The challenge of declining bicycle sales in the world's leading cycling nation

A few days ago I quote tweeted this graph from Datagraver on twitter with a comment that "Sadly, cycling is dying in the Netherlands." The ...

hyakinthos Nov 21, 2024

@hembrow
Some of that contradicts my understanding. Netherlands is relatively flat, so e-bikes don’t make much sense. When I visit NL, I rarely see e-bikes. Maybe I’m not paying close enough attention.

But I also recall that bicycle theft was a huge problem in NL, and that the reaction was for most people to switch to quite cheap bikes. I wonder to what extent the avg price of €603 is due to people paying over €10k for a very lightweight high end bicycle.
@mdione

hyakinthos Nov 21, 2024

@hembrow
I’m sure you’re right in saying the 2nd-hand market is depleted of good options if e-bikes are proliferating. But I would not regard a converted bike the same way. Batteries and motors lose a lot of their value when used because they have short lives. But a converted bike is easily converted back.

Although a hub motor is a problem because then the wheel must be replaced. But if it’s a mid-drive motor kit, no new parts are needed in converting back to a muscle bike.
@mdione

hyakinthos Nov 21, 2024

@hembrow
The great thing e-bikes are doing is getting people out of cars -- people who would not make that switch if they thought they had to do much work. So making e-bikes an enemy risks persistent “car-ificiation”.

E-bikes make the hills go away. So an e-bike motivated me to ditch public transport (which is even worse than e-bikes). Then when my e-bike got stolen, I went to a cheap muscle bike which I am happy with.. had to be baby steps to get there.
@mdione

Marcos Dione Nov 21, 2024

@hyakinthos @hembrow to MOST hills :) There are a few here that bot ebikes I tried couldn't make, but then so few people live up there that it doesn't matter :)

And yes, after the ebike, going back to the accoustic one :) was a walk in the park.

Alexander Heidebrecht Nov 25, 2024

@hembrow
Hub brakes! Those are amazing, and even more amazing if you don't have to pedal backwards to activate them. I used to have those, and they're my least favourite option (if we discount those ooold brakes that pushed directly onto the tyres).

Actually, I think my favourite "everyday bike" should have hub brakes (with manual levers), and a hub dynamo.

Not sure if it would be good for long tours with camping gear, though. Downhill braking with extra baggage could overheat them.

Kim Nov 25, 2024

@Alex_H @hembrow Many velomobiles use Sturmey Archer drum brakes on the front wheels. Low maintenance, and easier to fit in the space available than a disc brake.

Weight is comparable to a loaded touring bike, speeds are a lot higher and they seem to manage.

(They're on the wishlist for when my utility bike eventually needs replacing.)

Alexander Heidebrecht Nov 25, 2024

@kim @hembrow
hmm.. I have an ICE trike, with disk brakes (Also Sturmey Archer, I think). Yes, drum brakes would be cool. I suspect they're very differently built to the old drum brakes from my childhood bikes, though.

...I might have to look into this in case I finally decide to replace my 27 year-old bike. Although it will be hard to part with it, even if nothing on it is original anymore. Oh the memories!

Kim Nov 25, 2024

@Alex_H @hembrow They used to be standard on ICE trikes, though they started fitting them with disc brakes some years ago (I think there was a supply chain problem at the time, so they developed a disc brake hub and bracket). Think you can still get them as an option.

TBH, a tadpole trike neatly avoids one of the main annoyances of disc brakes: Ease of bending the disc if you bash it (eg. when locking a bicycle).

David Hembrow Nov 25, 2024

@Alex_H Nice trike. And great to hear that you've had it so long. I used to ride a two-wheel recumbent from the designer of the original Trice (Peter Ross).

Amazingly, Sturmey Archer drum brakes have barely changed in 100 years. They look a bit different on the outside, but the same brake pads fit are used inside, fitted onto the same mechanism.

The only difference between the brakes fitted on town bikes and those for trikes and velomobiles is that they are modified for mounting on one side.

I have a velomobile with Sturmey Archer drum brakes. They've been wonderfully reliable. I've ridden it almost 74000 km so far without having to replace anything in the brakes.

BTW, back pedal brakes (I think that's what you had as a child) have a completely different mechanism.
@kim

Alexander Heidebrecht Nov 26, 2024

ha... no, my 1997 bike is a plain trekking bike with two wheels.
The ICE trike is 2 years old and mostly just used for longer tours, since it's not so great for cycling in cities, and that's where I live.

Reinout van Schouwen Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow A bicycle with an old fashioned dynamo! You don't see these a lot any more either.

Oh and the yellow plastic ring, which was some kind of anti-theft measure IIRC?

David Hembrow Nov 19, 2024

@reinouts Nothing wrong with dynamos ! The good ones always worked well, and they still do work well. I still use them myself (I also sell them). Combined with modern LED lights they're really good.

MarjorieR Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow @reinouts I beg to differ about dynamos, at least tyre driven ones: back in the 80's I crashed into the back end of a neighbours hatchback while fiddling about trying to get my front wheel dynamo working properly.

Fortunately the only thing broken was my glasses - and the front forks and downtube (Steel - Reynolds 531) of my bike got bent and had to be repaired and repainted.

Which I suppose reinforces with the OP's more general point about repairablilty.

Josh Carlson Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow @reinouts

Can confirm! My son put an LED dynamo on his bike, and it's the brightest thing on the road, even at very low speeds.

Alexander Heidebrecht Nov 25, 2024

@hembrow @reinouts

I've started cycling in the 1980's, and never had a dynamo that worked well in rain, and in one case, they just destroyed the tyres. Once, I bought a rubber "hat" for a dynamo, which allowed it to work fairly well, but was running much slower. Even then, the bulbs in the lamps kept burning out rather quickly.

Maybe it's because we had hills where I grew up, which meant I was going fairly fast sometimes...

Anyway, I switched to battery lamps and never looked back.

eswillwalker Nov 19, 2024

@reinouts @hembrow We saw lots of those dynamos in Japan last month. They have lots of this kind of bike, too. Their bikes are tools, not toys.

Max Nov 19, 2024

@reinouts @hembrow Yeah, it'll have the owner's zipcode etched in the frame, the yellow thing covers that. I remember those things being introduced...

Murat Cem Mengüç Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow when bikes used to come with a dynamo and their own air pump. ❤️

Hyperlink Your Heart Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow I like those built-in wheel lock things Dutch bikes have

David Hembrow Nov 19, 2024

@hyperlinkyourheart They're really great things. Very convenient. I sell them here:
https://www.dutchbikebits.com/locks

Nikolaj Stausbøl Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow Also, no-one is going to steal it. An ugly bike is a feature.

bbobbybee Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow repair, restore, dont scrap! still have a 1939 columbia I pulled outta the scrap...

Kantuck Atsilawesa Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow I'm one of those 'weirdos' that likes stuff that actually /lasts/ and does not break in a week so you have to buy another. In the long run, that's more expensive. I work at a local Goodwill, and the waste is truly irritating. Thank you for showing this old beauty.

Oro Valley Dragonman Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow Preach, Brother, Preach, and Amen!

My only complaint with the design is the side-mount generator rotor always wore out the tire sidewall from friction. I did have one that mounted over the center of the rear tire. It was so efficient that I know people who used to put a resistor inline with the wiring to keep from burning out the headlight!

David Hembrow Nov 19, 2024

@OVDragonman I've used dynamos forever (still do on my town bike) and I've never actually ever seen damage like that.

Properly installed, good quality dynamos do not damage tyres.

Of course I'd not use them with very light racing tyres with very thin sidewalls - but that's not the use case anyway.

Jonathan Buys Nov 19, 2024

@hembrow I recently bought an old 10-speed from a garage sale for $5. Brought it home, replaced the brakes, tires, and tubes, tightened up a few things, and it rides smooth as butter. Built to last.

Eat This Podcast Nov 19, 2024

@jonathanbuys @hembrow What strange handlebars. I don’t recall ever seeing anything similar.