natei hate "men bad women good" because it also affects children too, what if they transition later? like me? i had to deconstruct so much gender essentialism bullshit just to start taking testosterone and not feel guilty of just being a man instead of a nonbinary-only creature.
feminine boys growing up do not deserve any of this, masculine girls, intersex too, damn, i think children should not be affected by gender/sex oppression at all... and then i am called a freak for thinking that way lol
Amber 
@[email protected] I’m mtf, meaning I was amab. The amount of times I was directly told I was the root of all evil. From the women in my life loudly proclaiming "fuck men" and "all men are evil" along with other rhetoric especially after a messy breakup? My mother would have to console me and explain I was "one of the good ones". I remember how horrible I’d feel seeing the people around me in pain and thinking that just because I was a boy I was hurting them. Shit is fucked on a young child’s psychology… I am not trans because of that, but I mention it because I know what you mean. It’s sick we continue to constantly reinvent gender essentialism
@puppygirlhornypost2 It's sick, disgusting, revolting, and very painful to deconstruct later, i believe cisnormativity only still exists due to the fact that we don't want to deal with this package of trauma everyone has been growing up with. from boys, to girls and intersex, every single one of them will experience the most horrible gender bs and then take it as a fact forever. I still remember being catcalled when I was 11, I will never forget. It's odd how I was constantly catcalled as a child and teenager but not as an adult. Cis roles sucks.
114N@nate There's also the opposite where bc so much bs gender essentialism exists it becomes more difficult to figure out which aspects commonly associated with gender *aren't* bs.
It took WAY too long for me to realize that "wanting to present androgynous" + "wanting to underdose HRT to androgynize" + "wanting to use they/them" = I'm nonbinary, specifically because I had been presented with so much of BS gender essentialism that I was/still am skeptical of the real components of gender.
neatchee@nate it's almost like - and hear me out on this - gender is a social construct and genitals have literally nothing to do with one's capacity for evil.
Masculinity is simply (one of) the axis on which our society chose to build oppressive systems and teach oppressive mindsets.
One need look no further than the American South to find plenty of examples of women exercising their capacity for oppression when given the means and opportunity.
Velvet@nate I used to live (pretending to live?) as a guy and with how much this was insinuated in people's words and actions, I was always left wondering why guys are seen in such a bad light.
Ok well, part of it was ignorance born of male privilege, and a lot of guys definitely earned some of that reputation with how they act, so I can't say there isn't at least a kernel of truth in the notion.
But as a "guy", it was really miserable to be treated as scum by default. I had to police everything I did strictly and I even felt guilty about things I did alone in private.
Well, I'm the pot calling the kettle black here. Now I myself treat cis men with disdain (I'm generally wary of cis people, but cis men definitely get more of it).
@rgbunny This shit is hard to deconstruct, I have seen so many men getting comfortable to dump the most misogynistic bullshit but also so many women trying to fix me in such a short time period that, uh, it's overwhelming, gender essentialism is overwhelming.
@nate Yeah, it really is.
I think the problem is cisnormativity. A big part of it is an enforcement of a clear dividing line between the sexes. So like if some guys act like this, all guys can act like this, but the girls on the other side of the line? Safe.
But it's of course, complete nonsense. I've seen plenty of misandrist drivel from women too, so women can stoop equally low.
The guys being forced to serve the military? They don't deserve to have a seat in public transport.
Plenty of other examples are out there, but my brain with <4 hours of sleep isn't serving me well 
@rgbunny damn your sleep comment reminded me i should be sleeping already 
but yeah, 100% what you said, it's some unending conflict that benefits no one
but yeah, 100% what you said, it's some unending conflict that benefits no one@nate It's a real dilemma. With enough bad actors, it's wiser to update your strategy to be more cautious instead of being permissive. And from what I've seen in boys' school and the military, a lot of guys are actually trashy. But being suspicious of all guys for our own safety is being unfair to those that are good.
This is probably the gender essentialism in my brain speaking. I really don't know what's the best thing to do here though, despite having lived both sides.
.kat 2@[email protected] not even just that, all men and boylike creatures deserve to be treated as equal people and not be seen as evil, lesser, or more primitive simply because of their gender
this should not be a radical take, especially in trans spaces: do not judge someone based only on their gender
this should not be a radical take, especially in trans spaces: do not judge someone based only on their gender
Jill@nate
I had big major existential worries about my child one day growing up to be a man. Because all we tend to hear about are the terrible ones. The only masculinity we get to hear about is the toxic kind. How do I give not only my kid but ME, TOO, as his parent, positive masculine role models?
Yes, Mister Rogers, but my kid is boisterous and physical, unlike Fred. I had to consciously find active, strong, loud, positive masculine role models to put my mind at ease.
Leah 
@[email protected] yeah. I get the feeling a lot of us trans girls might not have such bad dysphoria if it weren't for stuff like this.
@ChaosKitsune I'm so sorry trans girls have to go through this bs.
@[email protected] all the trans folk struggle with this I think then
Sorry you had to go through it too 💜
Hopefully u figure out a way to feel better about it all and happy as a guy 
Sorry you had to go through it too 💜
Hopefully u figure out a way to feel better about it all and happy as a guy
WaitingToCompile@nate also just more generally, it gestures towards the line of thinking that men are ontological evil, rather than the patterns of awful behaviour from men being a learned behaviour picked up from a deeply misogynistic society, and that in turn leads towards a lot of very essentialist ideas about gender. Terfs, political lesbians/lesbian separatism, and so on tend to be built on the idea that mysoginy is actually irreconcilable and innate.
@WaitingToCompile I don't believe misogyny is innate but rather learned, and the moment we stop it from happening we will finally have some sort of peace. It's hard and going to take decades and maybe one more century, I have hope about it being successful at some point.
misc 🦌@nate yeah i transitioned ftm in high school then detransitioned less than ten years later in large part because of the constant exposure to "men bad why would you want to be bad". awful feeling. thankfully i was able to eventually get to a place where i felt like i could re-transition and just block out the bullshit but it's still so hard to be exposed to it even in spaces that are supposed to be "safe". always good to see people speaking up against it