I need a sanity check from the fediverse. After all, I'm a mere Illinois driver. I was just informed my dad and his friends have this deep pet peeve while driving that I have absolutely never been aware of or concerned by on safe roads in America.

Imagine you are driving on a multi-lane highway. Yes, I get the "right lane is the slow lane, left lane is the passing lane" thing. But imagine it's like pretty empty road, out in the country, and you're driving the speed you want to go in the right or middle lane.

Another car is along side you in the left lane. There's nobody behind them who wants to go faster. They just hang out at the same-ish speed as you. So you have a car kind of driving next to you.

This makes my dad deeply uncomfortable and he finds it incredibly rude. Fediverse, if the driver is doing nothing else objectionable, is it him, or me?

@hacks4pancakes FWIW, I’m with your dad — makes me nuts too, that behavior!

@hacks4pancakes

I despise people who refuse to manually reset when their cruise control goes into "stalker mode."

@AnonymooseGuy I usually assume that's what's going on!
@hacks4pancakes
I haven't driven in twenty-five years, but, yeah, that used to bother me.
@hacks4pancakes IMO on an empty road it’s fine, but if someone is behind the person in the left lane especially, and they want to pass because they’re going faster but can’t, it’s very rude. I experience this daily and yeah I guess I’m like your dad. Not sure if that’s a great thing but it’s just one of those OCD aspects of my personality.
@hacks4pancakes I find it annoying because right-side adjacent zero motion detected (by their peripheral vision) yields a likely attention blind-spot for the driver to my left.

@hacks4pancakes I don't feel this way, but I can imagine it being akin to one stranger hovering near another in an otherwise empty field. Or being two people in an elevator and standing close to each other.

For some reason, it reminds me of driving in Germany; the car on the right cannot pass a car on the left. So, 'either pass, or get behind me.'

I could probably ruminate on this for far longer than I should though.

@hacks4pancakes If the person in the left lane isn't actively passing they shouldn't be in the left lane. Doesn't really matter if anyone is behind them, it's still not where they should be.

More often than not I'll slow down ever so slightly so they pull ahead. If they slow down, too, then something is fishy.

@hacks4pancakes I think it's him. The only time that bothers me in the slightest is when the other car is not just *next to* me, but directly in my blind spot, so I lose awareness of their location. So long as I can see them without craning my neck I don't see any reason to care.

(I drive a hybrid, don't speed, and stick to the right lane except to pass or take a left-hand exit.)

@hacks4pancakes I don't like it. With cars, it feels to me like an aggressive move, like they're trying to race me. With trucks, I don't like hanging around next to them in case they need to merge. In both cases I like having the ability to swerve into an adjacent lane to avoid an obstruction if necessary. (location context: learned to drive in MD, live in DC)
@hacks4pancakes This is dangerous. The closer another vehicle is to you, even to the side the fewer options you have
@hacks4pancakes Depends, if they slowed or sped up to match your speed, I get a tad bit concerned...
@hacks4pancakes Learned to drive in Utah and have resided in Texas for way too long now. Have never liked it. But it was deeply ingrained in me to use the passing lane for passing and then get out of it. In Utah part of that comes from narrow mountain roads and just gets generalized.
@hacks4pancakes I don't know if I'd call it "rude" but driving is already one of the most dangerous things we do and it feels like that needlessly makes it more likely to have a crash if anything goes wrong so I'd probably slow down for a bit to add some separation.
@hacks4pancakes This feel akin to folks who drive in others' blind spots. Here, they're being dense about the need to have a safe lane to safely swerve to if a hazard suddenly appears (or they get a sudden flat), and are thereby shifting risk onto the driver to their right.
@hacks4pancakes I tend to speed when I'm on the highway, and so my preference is for there to be less immediately adjacent to my vehicle because it's stressful to track adjacent vehicles as potential hazards. I usually just adjust my speed so I'm slightly slower in that situation if the other person is already going the speed I want to so they overtake me.
@hacks4pancakes there's a demonstrated phenomena where if a street feels more narrow or enclosed people drive slower and more cautiously. I wouldn't be surprised if the people who think having someone adjacent on a mostly empty wide open road is somehow rude are probably picking up on that same feeling without realizing it, and then blaming the other driver for it.

@hacks4pancakes A friend who has what I'd call a serious speeding hobby once claimed to me that when you are going very fast it is "safer" if you are moving faster than everyone else for reasons of being in control and having lots of options for how to react to things.

I don't agree with him on this at all, and I think there are some obvious problems with his reasoning, but I could see how someone similarly minded might convince themselves of some imagined road etiquette along the same lines.

@hacks4pancakes Big risk I've heard about is blind spots, though properly set mirrors (which most drivers don't do sadly) take care of 95% of that problem

@hacks4pancakes It's not a good situation from a safety perspective. This is clearer when one of the two vehicles is a semi. They have huge blind spots so they might not be able to see a car hanging out next to them.

Even with normal vehicles the other car could drift into your blind spot. It's also easier to become mentally insensitive to something stable.

All in all, it's not recommended driving.

Plus, even when no cars are actually coming, why block the passing lane?

@hacks4pancakes absolutely dislike when this happens.

When Driving I think about where can I quickly put my car in an emergency to get out of the way of something, if someone is sitting next to me in a lane, that eliminates half of my 'escape' routes.

Deer, trash, potholes in the road, etc--how easily I can maneuver or break if something comes out of the blue impacts how I drive.

It's similar to why I don't tailgate-if something happens to the car in front of me I might not have time to stop.

@hacks4pancakes There's also the question of ice, hydroplaning, popped tires. Things that aren't about avoidance but something going wrong in a way that means your car, or their car, doesn't continue driving straight. If we're right next to one another it's more likely I get hit or hit them, if we're not I have a better chance of braking or something to avoid a collision

@hacks4pancakes

It's like a question of minimizing risk's surface area.

Especially in the midwest, where a 3 to 8 hour drive is pretty common to visit folks, why have extended periods of time of unnecessary risk when a bit faster or slower gets you to the same place, but with lower risk.

@hacks4pancakes if it’s a relatively empty road it would be safer to have spacing. I would find it creepy and rude, and adjust speed to separate.
@hacks4pancakes It takes away an escape route if a deer should suddenly jump out in front of me, and increases risk if either of us should suddenly have a flat tire or other mechanical issue. Huge no no for me.
Hi Leslie's dad this is the highest percentage of agreement I've seen in two years on this website
@hacks4pancakes I study passenger vehicle crashes for a living, so I’m weird. I’d rather have someone in front of me where I can see them or behind me where they’re unlikely to catch up if something goes wrong with their car.

@hacks4pancakes Assuming the other driver had to speed up to get next to me, why are they now slowing down to match my speed? I don't know that I've ever consciously thought about it but it definitely weirds me out and I'm pretty sure I naturally change my speed as a result. I feel like personal space is a thing in vehicles as well and that bubble increases as traffic decreases. I don't think I'm a terribly aggressive person but that brings out some deep "you wanna go bro" feelings.

I think I would feel the same way while walking or riding a bike. If you sped up to catch up to me, why are you just hanging out next to me now? It's something I would never do so it feels like there's no other explanation for it other than it being intentional on their part.

@beep @hacks4pancakes Exactly this. Especially on an empty road: the hanger-out either slowed down after coming alongside or sped up to match your dad. Both of those are dick moves, and unless there’s a car ahead, adaptive cruise wouldn’t make that happen.

@hacks4pancakes "why are you in my space, you could be anywhere else, there's so much room".

Really, I would take active action to create distance, and then if they persisted it would get even weirder, but I'd try to not get to that point.

@hacks4pancakes and like, I'm thinking of many drives up and down I-57 from Champaign to Chicago-area

@hacks4pancakes

California native, my understanding is driving side by side is illegal because it creates unsafe conditions. the leftmost car needs to pass and leave safe room for all other drivers

let’s say, you’re driving in the right lane with someone to your left, and an obstacle/deer/pedestrian/other car comes up in the right lane, you have nowhere to go.

if you swerve left (as is likely your instinct) you slam into your center lane cohort.

@hacks4pancakes i get bugged by it because they’re not leaving space/safe distance between us

@hacks4pancakes In most jurisdictions, it would be against the rules. I don't know about Illinois.

It's also dangerous to do that, because you may end up in the blind spot of the other driver.

@hacks4pancakes what gets me about that is is that they’re hanging out in a space where they were either going faster or slower to end up there, and now in the event of a deer or something there’s less maneuvering space for options. Like, it’s irritating to me but it’s not to the level of anger. More of something that makes me wonder what or if they’re thinking.

@hacks4pancakes it would bother me because it could reduce my options in an emergency.

Same for hanging out in my blind spot.

@hacks4pancakes I personally I don't care if someone wants to pace me behind or vice versa, but I do prefer to have space aside of me to "ditch-out" if something unexpected happens. If someone is riding side-by-side, I can't steer left or right (one side might a guardrail/ median divider and the other has the other driver). Obviously, your roads might be different than the ones near me which makes my preference less applicable.

@hacks4pancakes

Alongside or just behind is dangerous. A few car lengths ahead or behind is just fine. Humans are terrible at telling what speed they're driving so pacing another car is a good way to go...but not so close that you increase the risk of an accident.

@hacks4pancakes It kinda depends. What I hate is when someone is matching my speed while hanging out in my blind spot. I get how it happens - they're not watching the speedometer, they're watching me, so if I speed up so do they, if I slow down so do they, but it's a stressor I don't need and I will hit the brakes just to break the spell and get them where I can see them.

@hacks4pancakes I’ve done an incredible amount of driving in my time, with a lot on somewhat sparsely traveled roads. I’ve noticed that cars tend to form clumps, where there are no cars ahead or behind for miles, but a group of cars just sort of hang out. It’s not exactly what you are talking about, but in my simple mind, it seems like the same thing. I can come up with many theories on why this might be, from our deep down lizard brains want to be in proximity to other people (even if we don’t want to believe it), to a believe that you’re less likely to get pulled over by police if you’re part of a car clump than off by yourself, and I’ve imagined many more theories, but I really have no idea.

Back to your question - if someone is doing the speed limit in the fast lane, even if the other lanes were empty and someone comes along and flanks in a travel or slow lane at the same speed, it’s the car in the fast lane that needs to take action. Is it a jerk move? Maybe, but I argue they should not be traveling in the fast lane.

Maybe I’m old school.

@jerry @hacks4pancakes Nope, you're correct. That's a failure by the car in the passing lane
@jerry @hacks4pancakes the only time I never ended up in a clump is when I was on twos.... Its a lot safer to not be around the clusters but in between them on a motorcycle. But ye, out of the tens of thousands of miles ive driven, clumps are usually how it goes.

@jerry @hacks4pancakes so, you get a lot of lizards following you around? All the time or just when you're driving?

I do see quite a few lizards when I vacation in the tropics, I never assumed it was always the same ones, incredible.

@jerry @hacks4pancakes
Some people who cannot regulate their speed, and know it, drive too fast until they catch up to a person who is going a speed they can tolerate, and just follow that person as a way to prevent themselves from speeding (at least part of the time).
@bjb @hacks4pancakes yep. This is exactly what I do. Otherwise I will be pushing warp speed
@jerry @hacks4pancakes hah maybe it’s an introvert/extrovert thing? I try to stay as far from other cars as is safely possible.

@hacks4pancakes

It does block one from an evasive maneuver to the left if it's
warranted, IE a deer bounding out into the road.

I try to stay out of that position, though it's likely based to some extent on lots of moto riding.

I really don't like someone hanging out in my blind spot.

@hacks4pancakes It’s a safety issue, not just a personal space issue. The left lane car is blocking the mid-lane driver’s view and potential maneuvering space, for example if a deer bounded onto the highway, or mid-lane’s tire blew out and the vehicle spun. Then there’s also the sad possibility that the left lane driver is up to no good, whether just trying to get into mid-lane’s headspace, or preparing to attempt to force mid-lane off the road. Left lane should not linger.
@hacks4pancakes we see nothing actually wrong with it. we'd be a little nervous about doing it because it could inspire violence, but we see no actual good reason for it to.
@hacks4pancakes It always seemed kind of sketchy to me. I slow down and check the plate.
@hacks4pancakes It's him. That's a fairly normal behavior.

@hacks4pancakes This tends to happen a lot during traffic. I would call it zombie traffic. The worst is when they drive side by side (which is very dangerous but also bad as you'll hold up any traffic trying to pass you).

If they are matching my speed it doesn't bother me - but when they are constantly varying in speed and weaving it drives me nuts! Like cruise control exists people! It's worth learning how to use and it saves you gas!

Space cushion was something I learned in driver's ed and didn't really care about until I was maybe 10 years into driving. It has saved me from slamming my brakes and making dangerous last minute maneuvers for the better half of my driving experience. It's when you drive consciously about the space you have between the cars all around you - in short an escape route.

I'm surprised your dad is more annoyed while maybe a woman would be afraid of someone trying to follow but I figure they usually do that because they feel like if they speed a cop is more likely to stop them but not both of you. Solidarity on the road!!

@hacks4pancakes I'd say it would be a little odd (and *maybe* a bit uncomfortable) but I would not get angry about it. I liked the analogy of sitting in the chair next to you in a room of chairs.
@hacks4pancakes It *is* dangerous to be driving next to someone! If I find someone pacing me like that, I slow down or speed up and get in front or behind the fool.