Yehor 🇺🇦

1/2
Ok, so #minio is AGPL-licensed... That means, if you host it, the thing you are hosting it for should be also AGPL-licensed. Or you should buy a license for many thousands bucks annually.

I have a project I want to monetize in the future. I need an S3-compatible storage for it. And I didn't decide on the business model yet, nor on the licensing model. I'm not even sure if it will be open source.

I have options, and the easiest one is #JuiceFS. It is S3-compatible and it has Minio components built-in, but the project has Apache 2.0 license. I'm sure it is because the version of Minio they are using is at least 3 years old, from the times when it was not AGPL-licensed. Good and bad at the same time.

#legal #development #petprojects #software #softwaredevelopment #cloud #selfhosting #selfhosted #selfhost #business

Aug 20, 2024 at 6:45amWeb
Show threadYehor 🇺🇦Aug 20, 2024

2/2
Why not use #Amazon S3? Because my future project is potentially #SelfHostable. Sure, I can give users an ability to connect their S3 storage of choice to use with it, but then, I need to provide an alternative file storage for those who don't need S3. Local files or a database for example. But that should be implemented from scratch, which means many more days of #development

#itscomplicated, but at least I have a community where I can complain about all of this )

Show threadAlexeyAug 20, 2024
@estevez I'm all in with selfhosted, but I'm still using some sort of cloud storage for critical backups.
Show threadYehor 🇺🇦Aug 20, 2024
@alphasixtyfive, I feel you red only the second part of my complain ))) https://techhub.social/@estevez/112993000420563951
Yehor 🇺🇦 (@estevez@techhub.social)

1/2 Ok, so #minio is AGPL-licensed... That means, if you host it, the thing you are hosting it for should be also AGPL-licensed. Or you should buy a license for many thousands bucks annually. I have a project I want to monetize in the future. I need an S3-compatible storage for it. And I didn't decide on the business model yet, nor on the licensing model. I'm not even sure if it will be open source. I have options, and the easiest one is #JuiceFS. It is S3-compatible and it has Minio components built-in, but the project has Apache 2.0 license. I'm sure it is because the version of Minio they are using is at least 3 years old, from the times when it was not AGPL-licensed. Good and bad at the same time. #legal #development #petprojects #software #softwaredevelopment #cloud #selfhosting #selfhosted #selfhost #business

TechHub
Show threadAlexeyAug 20, 2024
@estevez Ouch. Guilty as charged.
Show threadAlfred M. SzmidtAug 21, 2024

@estevez > That means, if you host it, the thing you are hosting it for should be also AGPL-licensed.

That is not what it means.

Show threadwrobertsonAug 21, 2024

@amszmidt
Yeah, I'm no lawyer, but I understand that the AGPL mostly just changes the GPLv3 definition of distributing software to include network services.

So in this case, the AGPL just forces you to make any modifications *to MinIO* available to anyone who connects *to your MinIO service*.

If you're only using AGPL software internally, then IIUC you do not need to distribute sources, nor relicense projects which communicate with said AGPL software.
@estevez

Show threadAlfred M. SzmidtAug 21, 2024

@wrobertson The #GNU AGPL doesn't force you to anything -- this is such a common miscommunication -- nobody is getting forced to modify or redistribute (where the AGPL 'kicks' in) the work. If you do, it is _you_ (maybe not you specifically) that decided so, not the license.

The GNU project has excellent resources on the topic: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html

@estevez

Why the GNU Affero GPL - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation

Show threadAlfred M. SzmidtAug 21, 2024

@wrobertson The difference between the #GNU AGPL and GPL is minor; it is one clause (13.) -- and it is only if you modify the work -- and if it does "interacting with it remotely through a computer network".

@estevez

Show threadwrobertsonAug 21, 2024

@amszmidt
Right, so I don't think that it would have any impact on @estevez unless he wants to modify MinIO code, then make connecting to the MinIO backend required for the software to work, and *also* didn't want to release changes *to MinIO* as AGPL or later.

In other words I don't think it will be an issue.

Show threadYehor 🇺🇦Aug 22, 2024

@amszmidt @wrobertson Well, when I read the license, I understood it like you: you should open-source your work if you changed something in Minio's code. But there is some space in interpreting the license your way. And the Minio team made it so. There is a clear statement in their Licensing FAQs:

"When you host or distribute MinIO over a network, the AGPL v3 applies to you. Any distribution or copying of MinIO software modified or not has to comply with the obligations specified in the AGPL v3 license."
https://min.io/compliance#ComplyAGPLv3

And Minio is not the only team having such an interpretation. Google thinks the same way: https://opensource.google/documentation/reference/using/agpl-policy

Download High-Performance Object Storage | MinIO

Code and downloads to create high-performance, infinitely scalable object storage systems for any production environment.

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Show threadAlfred M. SzmidtAug 22, 2024

@estevez I wouldn't call it a clear statement from a company that is hell bent on subjugating computer user rights. If you do not modify the program, you don't need to do anything. MinIO interpretation is incorrect, or rather .. very much simplified.

@wrobertson

Show threadwrobertsonAug 21, 2024

@amszmidt
Weeeeell that seems like splitting hairs. That's like saying you're not "forced" to drive under the speed limit, or the BAC limit.

Like, yeah, I see the point, technically the license isn't in your house with a gun, and "if you do X you must Y or you are in violation of copyright and may be sued" is more precise, but c'mon.
@estevez