We need to talk about the classism of #Moderate #liberals.

Oh, the moderate liberal. There is a profound lack of empathy amongst what we would call the mainstream of the #DemocraticParty.

So, here's the thing. You want everyone to have an #EV. Well, an #ElectricVehicle requires charging. That pretty much requires a garage.

What about #solar? Well, if you are renting, you can't install solar panels. Nor does the #landlord have any incentives to ever install them.

Banning #plastic bags? A tax on poor people who traditionally got multiple uses out of every single plastic grocery bag.

Time and time again you see the #Democratic party, often along with #MiddleClass and #UpperClass #leftists and #progressives argue in favor of policies without a hint of empathy for the lived day to day reality of people who are #poor, #InnerCity or #rural.

Can you really be surprised that #Newsom decided to attack #homeless encampments? In his worldview, homelessness is a defect of the system, not an inherent product of it.

Fewer roads, fewer cars. Sure, but it sounds frightening when you have to drive to a dockyard that's two miles from a transit station.

The reason that a lot of #poor people in the US view the #Democrats as traitors is because they have traditionally _been_ class traitors.

The loudest progressive voices are usually the most privileged voices. So, they just sound like more class traitors without a moment of reflection on the actual lives of actual working people.

@AeonCypher " That pretty much requires a garage." It does not. I am using an EV with no Garage in a dense city. There are concepts like FastCharging.

@lindworm

Yes. You can theoretically spend time at a fast charger to make it work.

@AeonCypher I don't spend time at a FastCharger. I integrated that into my life. Whenever I shop, whenever I need a parking space in the city (slow charger), whenever I am at Work, my car charges. It's just different than the used "I fill my car with dinosaurs" way.

And that is why you can't compare it when you never experienced it. Quiet the contrary, I am never in the fear to not have enough. And on long distance travel, I need a break earlier than my car. Its ready before I am.

@lindworm

This map may as well be a map of home values. Guess where the poorer people live.

I _believe_ that there is lifestyle adaptation that makes this feasible.

I am unconvinced this adaptation is reasonable from people in lower income brackets.

Edit: there's no comprehensive map of gas stations, but it's pretty evenly distributed throughout the city.

@AeonCypher I am not living in america, as I know that system, you are always fucked as an average to poor income. Can't say anything about that. I only know, when infrastructure is planed well, the charging is not the problem at all.

If you live in selfish capitalist land everything is a chore.

@AeonCypher But when I follow @TechConnectify right. Charging should not be that problem in america as well. Sry I am from blessed europe πŸ™‚

@lindworm Fair enough.

A lot of this post probably hits differently in other countries.

@AeonCypher I can tell you, we have the exact same discussion (usually by people who want to keep the dinosaur car, because they are used to it). I belive you will not get the poor class to change as fast as the middle or upper class. So it's natural to concentrate on those more. Eventually these gains also will help the poor in the long run. But I see your point. Complicated matter in every country.

@lindworm

The main point is that the left with power, even when they actually make positive policies, often does it in a way that leaves our or sometimes even burdens the poor.

@AeonCypher true, but isn't that the nature of the beast? Ok with your social care system it is for sure even a bigger problem than I can imagine. This is also true for the republicans, I'd belief. For anyone in power.
Bigger VAT, hits the poor
Higher gasoline prices, inflation and so on. The poor will feel everything first. Thats why the only solution, can only be a system that supports the poor with money that is taken by the wealthy.

@lindworm

I mean, if they cared they'd bother to at least consider the effects.

As I point out in another post. They are often more focused on polemics than on good policy, so their policies are often ill conceived and impact the least privileged the most.

That's what I'm complaining about.

@AeonCypher News flash: life is harder for poor people! Therefore, let's give up on all policies.
@ThisAccountKillsFascists Nice straw man. That’s not at all what the original poster said. What was said is that class consciousness needs to be part of policy making. (Also, I’ll add that a Dem pitfall here is policy targeting individual behavior rather than corporate behaviorβ€”systemic issues like climate change require systemic solutions, like forcing major industry to adapt. But most Dems won’t do that because donors.) @AeonCypher

@UndeadRed85 @AeonCypher The "arguments" made by the original poster against these policies are, frankly, idiotic, which shows why class consciousness needs to be applied through redistribution of money and economic power, not at the level of individual policies regulating climate, environment, or transportation.

I'm sorry, if you think that we shouldn't have policies encouraging solar power until that policy also solves inequality, you're going to be waiting until the destruction of the earth.

@UndeadRed85 @AeonCypher We can't have solar panels because poor people can't afford to install them! No shit?

@ThisAccountKillsFascists Clearly you’re upset about an argument no one here is having but you.

Have a nice day, β€œcomrade”.

@UndeadRed85 The original poster literally called Democrats "class traitors" because they banned plastic bags.

@ThisAccountKillsFascists @UndeadRed85

That's not why they are class traitors.

@AeonCypher @UndeadRed85 Well then, you should probably write a lot more clearly and not throw around terms like class traitors so lightly. Especially when your implied proposals, such as they are, are completely impractical.

@ThisAccountKillsFascists @UndeadRed85

I made no implied proposals on this thread. Maybe, instead, you should spend more time responding to the actual text that someone puts down instead of what you would like to imagine the text says.

#Democrats are class traitors due to anti-union neoliberalism for 40 years after solidifying the support of the working class.

@AeonCypher @UndeadRed85 I did reply to the actual text. If you want to argue that the Democrats are class traitors due to anti-union neoliberalism, then maybe you should having fucking said that, rather than tying their class betrayal to a ban on plastic bags.

@ThisAccountKillsFascists @UndeadRed85

35% of homes are rented. So a third are automatically never going to have solar and there are no proposed policies to address this.

That doesn't mean we can''t have or shouldn't have policies to incentivize solar. Quite the opposite.

@ThisAccountKillsFascists @AeonCypher
"Life is harder for poor people, so it's not a big deal if we make life even harder for them."
@AeonCypher I mean, yes fuck moderate liberals, but it sounds as if what you need is properly-thought-through infrastructure and incentives, not that the ideas are bad or regressive in themselves. I don’t think these are the same things as Newsom’s actions.

@Nickiquote

Why do moderate liberal consistently create policies that aren't properly thought through?

@AeonCypher if I may offer a minor quibble: I don't think Newsom sees homelessness as a defect of the system. I think, like most, he sees it as a failure of the individual homeless person. People are too quick to blame people for their perceived faults, instead of the material conditions that forced them into that status.
@AeonCypher As one of those poor people, I appreciate what you are trying to say here and agree that doing all the right things might negatively affect the poor. But, I can't afford solar, so I use less electricity, I can't afford an EV so I ride a bicycle. I invested in durable groceries bags a long time back (one at a time) and now don't have to pay for them. The thing that affects poor people most, is inequality. Consumables are more expensive because those at the top earn too much.
Yeah, though uh, banning cars would give people plenty of time to do work close by where they live, since the dock can't hire anyone far away. Eliminating a job doesn't eliminate a worker. Really the problem is the dock should be publically owned, as well as every other common ground. Then we'd stop using cars on our own, because the police aren't attacking us for violating the private property rights of some guy who owns like 90% of all the real estate. We could plant gardens, build workshops, and community centers near where we live. Instead all we get are fast food chains and unusually unhinged churches, all because the land is privately owned by so few.