A gentle reminder when talking about about the presumptive Democratic nominee for President, from someone who doesn't talk politics here:
Referring to someone by their last name is generally a sign of respect. Referring to someone by their first name is generally a sign of intimacy. Consider how people have referred, in short form, to other nominees and Presidents:
Bush, Clinton, Gore, Bush, Kerry, Obama, Romney, McCain, Biden, Trump
And then
Hillary and Kamala
See a pattern?
*Harris* is running for President. Personally, until she invites me to use her first name, I'll be treating her with the same baseline level of respect I treat other Presidential candidates.
Maybe you should too.
@Impossible_PhD I think we deferred to "Hillary" because that other Clinton was still pretty fresh on our minds at the time. At least to me, it felt more respectful to distance her from the shenanigans of her husband.
And I in no way ever utter the name "Trump" out of any form of respect. 😬
@Shdwdrgn I submit as a counterpoint:
Bush, and Bush. We didn't even use Junior. He didn't become W until he was elected.
Just Bush.
@Impossible_PhD I can't disagree there, and I do agree with you about calling our VP by her name "Harris". I'll even admit I fell into calling her "Kamala" on Sunday when I heard the news, but quickly changed tracks once I thought about it. Yeah I know, seems like my first instinct is a double-standard, but really what I had in mind was that I never pay any attention to the VP's, and calling her "Harris" just felt like I was trying to bury the fact that she is a woman.
It's harder to get things right the first time when I grew up in a time that the N* word was still in very common every-day usage, but i try to think about what I'm doing and how I can do better to counter those bad habits I learned as a kid. I promise I will always try.
@Shdwdrgn
Not from your country, so probs way out of my lane. However we've had a few strong women in politics here. Please use the same naming conventions you would for a man. It doesn't bury the fact she's a woman, it helps stop that one characteristic being the main thing people focus on. And allowing her opposition to get away with making that the whole story isn't helpful.
My thinking's informed by listening to what people said for 15 years of women prime ministers here
@Impossible_PhD @Shdwdrgn Anecdotal counterpoint, for all it counts for - Jeb Bush has, as best as I can tell, never just been called Bush.
Somehow, he broke that spell of reusing the same last name for multiple people, I guess?
@Impossible_PhD Unless I’m misinterpreting things, it seems she *is* inviting it! Her campaign’s Twitter account is “Kamala HQ”, the campaign store sells mugs with a “Kamala” signature…as far as I can tell, she seems comfortable being called either Harris *or* Kamala.
And this seems pretty standard for presidential candidates tbh! Sanders would go by Bernie, O’Rourke would go by Beto, Booker tried to go by Cory…I don’t think using the first name is disrespectful for a candidate!
I do not disagree.
However, I suspect that part of this stems from Hilary Clinton using her first name to distinguish between her and Bill Clinton.
@Impossible_PhD
Conservatives in Canada tried to pull this shit on Trudeau to label him as a young inexperienced kid by calling him Justin in all their attack ads.
I at least appreciate it encouraged me to always be consistent about it and use last name regardless of what becomes common.
@Impossible_PhD Thank you for raising an important point.
I'm feeling a bit embarrassed for not noticing this. 🙄
@Impossible_PhD Senior, Bill, Gore/super cereal, Dubya, Who, Obama, Mittens, McCain, Biden, the orange turd/felon/crybaby loser/rapist
Hill to contrast with Bill
I get calling her Harris, but Kamala is also an awesome name
@Impossible_PhD Questionable.
Hillary wasn't Clinton to differentiate her from Bill. You can't do that with Bush, since they were both George [Herbert] Walker Bush. I've mostly heard him referred to as "Baby Bush," which IMO is less respectful. In any case, HC wanted to be distanced from BC for obvious reasons, while GWB wanted voters to view him as part of the Bush political dynasty.
Harris is only a day into being the presumptive nominee, so I expect things to change in the coming months. I often call them by their full names for a long time before eventually switching to last name only, and it hasn't been a very long time. Then there's Palin, who (and I might have just not been paying attention) I have never heard referred to as "Sarah."
And some intentionally use their first names to be relatable, like Eisenhower (Ike, although not technically his first name) or Sanders (Bernie, although never a Presidential nominee)
Also, two female candidates are not enough to spot a pattern.
@Impossible_PhD I think you are right so I am not going to argue that point at all. Kamala is an awesome name however.
Netanyahu gets Bibi I think mainly because people are afraid to try to say his last name.
For myself, I use first name if there is sufficient context to be clear who I am talking about. I like the first name approach because we are just people and I do not let others use any honorific or title for me.
GWB, he was chimp or shrub to me. For one of our current candidates, I use the felon.
@Impossible_PhD I've seen some authors use a first name is a uniquely humanizing way.
Best example was Hallie Rubenholds The Five about the five women the ripper killed. This was probably because their surnames changed multiple times over and Polly, Annie, Elisabeth, Kate, and Mary Jane works better, but also it was as you said, intimate as most people know them as just victims.
But when it comes to our (hopefully) next president, its all Harris to me.
@bensomers
Not so much disrespectful, imo, as just ignorant. I’ve been referring to her as VP Harris & I’m glad I’m on the pc side, but it’s without an intentional effort. The argument that using a last name denotes respect is valid. I’ve supported lots of candidates, & most recently referred to them as Senator Warren and Bernie. But as you tooted, it must be okay if the candidate’s branding.
@Impossible_PhD Thesis not supported by actual use.
It was very common to refer to Clinton as Bill, Biden as Joe, and Obama as Barack or Barry. Hillary has to be disambiguated from Bill, so either her first name or Mrs Clinton or Secretary of State Clinton.
Al Gore often got the full "Al Gore Invented the Internet", and Bush was Bush Jr or GWB or The Shrub to distinguish from Bush Sr or GHWB.
@Impossible_PhD
GW/GWB/Junior, Mittens, Uncle Joe...
As far Hillary Clinton, her campaign logo was an H. She has the power to choose what people call her, and she chose Hillary
Quick: What's Mitt Romney's real first name? (No Googling!) If you didn't guess "Willard," you're in the same boat as 94 percent of America that somehow still doesn't know all that much about a guy who's been running for president for five years.
@Impossible_PhD I submit as counter-counterpoint.
To be clear I don't disagree with the premise and I'm not arguing against using any candidate's surname.
But the 2016 Clinton campaign leaned into her first name very intentionally. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that in that instance that's how she was was referred to. It was considered a strength. Michael Bierut's brief for the campaign design was, "Our candidate has 100 percent name recognition.”
@Impossible_PhD @lisamelton Agreed but…
Harris has used “Kamala” in both her “personal” and political branding. 🤷🏽♂️
@Impossible_PhD i almost always referred to Democratic presidents on a first name basis and Republicans as "that asshole."
This goes back before Reagan.
@Impossible_PhD
Counterpoint 1: It seems she herself says "call me Kamala".
Counterpoint 2: "Harris" is a very white-passing name, "Kamala" is not.
from: https://indiepocalypse.social/@tamitha/112838228061050482
Disclaimer: As a non-American, I have no real opinion, or right to tell you what ro do. Just pointing out the post linked above.
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