Joe WoodJul 23, 2024
Waldo Jaquith

When Hillary Clinton was the nominee, she was called "Hillary” by fans, opponents, and media alike. I was told “that's because 'Clinton' means 'Bill' in people's heads," and I didn't entirely agree, but OK.

Now Kamala Harris is the presumptive nominee, and she's "Kamala,” not "Harris.” There is no other President Harris.

Trump isn't "Donald," Biden isn't "Joe,” Obama wasn't "Barack.” In 2016, it was possible that this wasn't gendered. But I can’t buy that anymore.

Jul 22, 2024 at 8:40pmIvory for Mac
Show threadWaldo JaquithJul 22, 2024
I don't think it's inherently sexist to call Harris "Kamala." I get that some fans will feel she's familiar, just like there exist fans of Biden who jovially call him “Joe” or fans of Obama who call him "Barack." But, in general, I think it's unduly familiar, *especially* coming from media outlets.
Show threadWaldo JaquithJul 23, 2024
I'm muting this thread because it has achieved context escape velocity and because the federated nature of Mastodon means I'm getting the same few replies over and over from different people.
Show threadWaldo JaquithJul 28, 2024
Data point: I just heard Jen Palmieri (Clinton campaign comms director) interviewed on NPR, and she said that Hillary Clinton hates being called “Hillary” as a general identifier.
Show threadPeter GriesarJul 28, 2024
@waldoj then an odd choice in merchandise considering
Show threadWaldo JaquithJul 28, 2024
@griesar I think you’re seeing the bind that women find themselves in as candidates. Remember when she had to promote her chocolate chip cookie recipe in, like, 1993? She knew that was BS, but she also knew how powerful women have to pull their punches by adhering to gender stereotypes.
Show threadPeter GriesarJul 28, 2024
@waldoj Agreed. But politics is full of every bullshit stereotype as yardsticks.
Show threadPresent GoodJul 28, 2024
@waldoj 1960's playing dress up and my neighbor wanted to play 'bride'; wrote her name as "Mrs. John Smith" and I decided I would never lose either my first name or my last to marriage. So, I still bear my patronymic. What was I going to do? Take my mother's patronymic instead? It's fraught.
Show threadGreg NilsenJul 22, 2024

@waldoj

I guess it could be, but I was just thinking that it's the "stronger" of the names for her.

It happens with athletes a lot, even the greats...like "Jordan" vs "LeBron".

Show threadWaldo JaquithJul 22, 2024
@GregNilsen I'll be interested to see how the campaign decides to brand her. Right now, it's "Harris for President." But if they settle on "Kamala,” then I think it's entirely understandable for people to repeat that messaging.
Show threadLauralee DukeshireJul 23, 2024
@waldoj @GregNilsen Her first ad I saw had a logo "Kamala For The People"
Show threadBigDJul 23, 2024
@waldoj @GregNilsen
Just a note from a Kiwi experience.
Most of our country , New Zealand, referred to our then Prime Minister as Jacinda in preference to Ardern.
Nothing wrong in doing so. She didn't mind a bit.
Show threadNorCal LynneJul 22, 2024
@waldoj this ☝️☝️☝️
Show threadJim FlanaganJul 22, 2024
@waldoj I always thought we referred to politicians by their brands, which they create themselves, and sell.
Show threadWaldo JaquithJul 22, 2024
@jimfl The campaign has branded her as “Harris," but perhaps in less-formal communications they've done otherwise?
Show threadEvannakitaJul 23, 2024
@jimfl Interestingly, in 2020, Booker branded himself as “Cory” and Klobuchar branded herself as “Amy”, but neither of those caught on; they were still generally just called Booker and Klobuchar.
Show threadMichael WymanJul 22, 2024
@waldoj I think when the other party keeps insisting on calling their candidate “President Trump,” or (worse) “The President”, it’s reasonable to show as much deference to VP Harris as possible.
Show threadDeb ChachraJul 22, 2024
@waldoj I think part of it is that Biden and Trump are more distinctive that Joe and Donald, and Hilary and Kamala are more distinctive than Clinton and Harris. Barack Obama were both distinctive, so Obama was formal and Barack was familiar or condescending, It absolutely reflects the primacy of both male and Anglo names in politics, but yes, it manifests as (over)familiarity. In any sort of formal context, it’s absolutely VP Harris.
Show threadWaldo JaquithJul 22, 2024
@debcha Ooh, good point about male, Anglo names.
Show threadJayJul 22, 2024

@debcha @waldoj This feels like justification after the fact. I can buy it for Clinton, but not for Harris.

In memes and marketing, first names get used all the time, because those can be familiar, but as OP said, it’s absurd for her first name to be used in the media. It’s the “females and men” all over again.

Show threadRodboticJul 23, 2024
@debcha @waldoj i don't think Ronald is a common name.
Last name usage has some authority to it.
Even the army and police usually refer to the last names.
Show threadDeb ChachraJul 22, 2024
@waldoj I’m kind of reminded of the not-a-joke that there are more people named, like, Matt in a given tech company than there are women, so the male-coded names need disambiguation and the female-coded names don’t. And I also absolutely agree that this is where implicit bias creeps in — I get Ms Chachra where my male peers get Dr or Prof, so it’s something to be aware of.
Show threadMatt BlazeJul 22, 2024

@waldoj I remember there being an early attempt to brand Biden as "Joe", but it just didn't stick and they quickly stopped trying. Joe is a very "regular guy" name, which is probably why they initially pushed it. And of course Sanders has always been "Bernie".

But I agree, those seem to be exceptions rather than the rule for male candidates at this level.

Show threadRowinSpeezJul 23, 2024
@mattblaze @waldoj in Canada, Pierre tried to continually do exactly this by calling the PM “Justin”. When he became leader of the opposition, he was forced to stop referring to the PM by first name due to rules of decorum in parliament.
Show threadyour auntifa liza 🇵🇷 🦛 🦦Jul 22, 2024

Kamala is like Liza, Madonna, Oprah, Beyoncé: she has the cultural cachet to go by her first name only.

there is only one Liza. i will never be the Liza. that's cultural cachet and Kamala can swing that like a big dick all she wants.

and as one should.

@waldoj

Show threadJim VanderveenJul 22, 2024

@blogdiva @waldoj I'd prefer to leave it up to her. But as for me, I'll just refer to her as

Madam President!

#uspol #KamalaHarris2024

Show threadMax KaehnJul 22, 2024
@waldoj She changed the name of the Twitter account to KamalaHQ, so she's leaning into the first name, but I’m still sticking with “Harris” to refer to her unless she makes an explicit request otherwise.
Show threadchaos |Jul 22, 2024

@waldoj @amaditalks I personally will always address female politicians by their last names because, even if it’s in good faith to speak with affection or familiarity, it is different from how we treat male politicians and it can come off as disempowering.

#USpol

Show threadJason Anthony GuyJul 23, 2024
@waldoj I always always refer to her in writing as VP Harris, or her full name, explicitly because of this act of diminuation. She doesn’t make it easy though, with “Kamala for the People” as a slogan, and KamalaHQ. It’s a unique (-ish) name in politics, so I accept the market branding, but I will only call her Kamala privately among friends. Never in public.
Show threadJeff C. 🇺🇦Jul 23, 2024

@waldoj I don’t like it when anybody does it, for any politician.

Politicians shouldn’t even have “fans,” IMHO — and that goes triple for media outlets.

I don’t think it’s particularly sexist, though. People have done this familiarizing thing with male presidential candidates for as long as I can remember. Sometimes it’s a first name (“Mitt,” “Barry”) and sometimes it’s a middle name (“Dubya”).

Show threadMichal Migurski 🍉Jul 23, 2024
@waldoj True but I had her campaign stickers from 2020, they literally just said “Kamala” on them; it seems to be something she’s chosen at various times rather than had thrust upon her.
Show threadWaldo JaquithJul 23, 2024
@migurski Well, that her campaign has chosen. I'm reminded of Theodore Roosevelt, who absolutely *despised* being called "Teddy” (except when he was president, his staff called him “Colonel”). I have to wonder the extent to which gender roles obliged that occasional branding. Today, the campaign website calls her "Harris," but my hunch is they haven't entirely figured that out yet.
Show threadMichael B. JohnsonJul 23, 2024

@waldoj @migurski I also remember all the sexist machinations that went to renaming her Hillary rodham Clinton vs Hillary rodham, i.e. let’s tack her husband’s name on to make the super competent wife be less threatening as a First Lady.

We’re so awful.

Show threadMichal Migurski 🍉Jul 23, 2024
@Drwave @waldoj That cookie recipe competition from 1992
Show threadDavid WheelerJul 23, 2024
@waldoj And we called Clinton “Bubba”
Show thread.:. brainsikJul 23, 2024
@waldoj a big difference is her social media campaign is named “Kamala HQ” (renamed from “Biden HQ”). It’s a smart move. When someone tries to devalue her by using just her first name, they amplify the brand.
Show threadValJul 23, 2024

@waldoj “jovially call him ‘Joe’”

👏👏👏

Show threadOlivier LeroyJul 22, 2024

@waldoj

I have Biden has "Joe" but mostly because I like him and fully agree with your point. I will be mindful "short naming" Kamala Harris as "Harris"

Show threadAndromeda YeltonJul 22, 2024

@waldoj

1) i believe you
2) although istr “Geraldine Ferraro” and “Mondale/Ferraro”
3) clearly we need a much larger sample size of female Pres candidates to resolve this question

Show threadWaldo JaquithJul 22, 2024
@thatandromeda I wonder how Ferraro was referred to at the time, outside of the campaign branding. (I was a very small child at the time, so I've got no idea.) Harris is branded as "Harris" by the campaign, after all.
Show threadAndromeda YeltonJul 22, 2024
@waldoj I was pretty small BUT my mom was very political and this campaign was a huge exciting moment for me (...I um led a protest at my kindergarten because the boys were monopolizing the playground equipment, with signs and everything, because I was so hyped by her example, and much later wrote an award-winning essay about it that I read at the LoC, ANYWAY) what I remember is what I wrote above
Show threadRob Carlson  Jul 22, 2024
@waldoj It's probably gendered. It's probably not bad for her. As anecdata, Baltimore County Executive Johnny Olszewski Jr. campaigned for his current office and is currently campaigning for MD-2 as "Johnny O" so he doesn't have to teach people how to pronounce Ol-shes-key.
Show thread66gardenersJul 23, 2024
@vees @waldoj
Love JohnnyO
Show threadPeter GriesarJul 22, 2024
@waldoj Trump will be “Weird Donald” soon enough
Show threadDavid NiceJul 22, 2024
@waldoj I get that, but 'Harris' is an anonymous sounding surname. 'Kamala' might have the ring of 'Madonna' or 'Adele' or 'Whitney'. I don't see it as a sexist thing.
Show threadchris overcashJul 22, 2024

@davidpnice @waldoj agreed, I think it’s better branding. It’s a unique name, looks and sounds interesting… Harris is very generic.

I bet if Obama’s last name was Johnson, he would have gone with Barack.

Show threadartisanroxJul 22, 2024

@waldoj

I refer to Dem/lefty pols as "Bill". "Hillary" or "the Hill". "Joe". "Bernie".

Kamala Harris will be "Harris" at least in my very red area because I just think it normalizes her existence. People will NOT focus on policy here, just her identity. Calling her "Harris" makes her no different than "Bush", "Carter", and "Reagan". I don't mean to cancel her ethnicity, I want to NORMALIZE her as a **human being** asking for a job to my local racists and 💩heads.

Show threadchrisJul 22, 2024
@waldoj Perhaps it is as simple as choosing the most distinctive, unambiguous of the names?
Show threadSashinJul 22, 2024
@waldoj One possible out is that Joe and Donald are relatively common names, so when using them it isn't clear who you are talking about. Same with Harris.
Show thread66gardenersJul 22, 2024
@waldoj
A bit premature, perhaps? Or hopefully?
Show threadsomehybridJul 22, 2024
@waldoj you're telling me people *dont* call her harris?
Show threadlegraLeGraJul 22, 2024

@waldoj @inthehands

Folks referred to bush2 as “W” dubya. - still do.

I think the catchiest branding is what wins.

PS I still have a Birdy Sanders sticker on my fridge.

Show thread66gardenersJul 23, 2024
@atthenius @waldoj @inthehands
And Clinton was Bubba at one time.
Show threadReal SyntacticJul 22, 2024
@waldoj when I was Director of Grad Studies in my uni department, I received more emails than I can shake a stick at asking “Miri” for help getting into “Prof Whiteman’s” or “Prof Otherwhiteman’s” seminar, even though my academic email signature includes my academic credentials and institutional title. In college my professors were “Dr Whiteman,” “Dr Otherwhiteman,” “Dr Yetanotherwhiteman,” and “Carol.” Was ever thus.
Show threadMastodon MigrationJul 23, 2024

@waldoj

Agreed use 'Harris' or 'Kamala Harris'.

But call Trump 'Donald' because he hates it.

Show threadMichael GemarJul 23, 2024
@waldoj @dangillmor Let’s see what her campaign prefers.
Show threadDon WeaverJul 23, 2024
@waldoj I will call her whatever she wants, although my personal preference is President Harris.
Show threadStella C 🇨🇦Jul 23, 2024
@waldoj Media sources should stick to one format - Harris.
Show threadknightlyJul 23, 2024

@waldoj
"Harris" is a common name.

9 states have cities named Harris.

The elementary school I attended was named Harris.

Wikipedia's List of Notable People with the Surname Harris has literally hundreds of entries.

Even "President Harris" might refer to one of four different people, only one of whom is fictional.

She's getting firstnamed for clarity, just like Hillary

Show threadCarl MalamudJul 23, 2024
@waldoj if she's "kamala" then I think he has to be "donny-boy."