JustinJul 13, 2024
Andrew Moore

My thoughts on the outcry over Mozilla's Privacy Preserving Attribution experiment in #Firefox 128.0.

PPA is a major step forward towards eliminating invasive tracking from AdTech companies.

#Mozilla #MozillaFirefox #Firefox #adtech

https://andrewmoore.ca/blog/post/mozilla-ppa/

Misconceptions about Firefox's Privacy Preserving Ad Measurement

Mozilla's Privacy Preserving Attribution is an important step forward towards eliminating invasive tracking by AdTech companies. Unfortunately, it is being loudly contested by individuals that prefer to spread fear instead of learning about it.

Andrew Moore
Jul 13, 2024 at 7:52pmWeb
Show threadKornelJul 15, 2024
@FineWolf my issue is that Mozilla hasn't said that. They didn't try to explain it to users, and get them on board with their consent. They just cowardly sneaked it in. Regardless of whether it's a privacy improvement or not, the issue is that #Mozilla acted like a sleazy ad company that chose a dark pattern. They knew that if they asked users, then fewer people would opt in, so they chose not to ask.
Show threadthermonuclear small claimsJul 16, 2024
@FineWolf It's not the technology itself, it's the opt-in without consent or communication that's a problem.
Show threadAndrew MooreJul 16, 2024

@fullfathomfive

The lack of communication is definitely an issue, I agree.

As for opt-in... Would you require your local council to ask for opt in from each driver for measuring the amount of accidents at an intersection versus the amount of traffic?

#PPA is not user behavioral tracking. It really is just measuring aggregate conversions vs impressions in a way that prevents individual tracking. Initiatives like this coupled with strong legislation is how we defeat invasive tracking.

Show threadthermonuclear small claimsJul 16, 2024

@FineWolf If my choice as an individual doesn't matter, then why do I have a box that can be ticked or unticked to participate in this? (And is ticked by default). If your traffic analogy was legitimate, then they would roll this out in the base code with no choice to opt-in or opt-out.

PPA is absolutely user behaviour tracking, it's placing small trackers on your browser to see if a "conversion" is made from an ad you see. They're just disguising the source of the information when they sell that information to other companies.

And this is not a town council. I didn't elect them, I can't recall them if I don't like their decisions, and they're not doing it for the public good - they're doing it to assist advertisers to make a profit. As a *customer* I think I should get a say in how my *customer information* is used. Mozilla obviously thinks I should too, or they wouldn't have put a tick box there.

Show threadAndrew MooreJul 17, 2024

@fullfathomfive

We'll agree to disagree. I've written why this isn't behavior tracking. PPA allows for aggregate reporting of conversions triggered by a known impression type. I don't need to explain my point of view a hundred times.

Yes, ads and ad networks are bad, and the tracking they've been doing is horrendous. But if we shut down every good initiative to solve that on that basis alone, we risk losing services that our society relies on for knowledge; that are funded atm by adverts.

Show threadAndrew MooreJul 17, 2024

@fullfathomfive

The alternative is direct funding, paywalling services so that only those who can afford to pay can access them. We are already seeing the beginning of this with some news organizations, online dictionaries...

I strongly believe that for a democracy to be healthy, access to information should be available to all. And as much as I hate ads and the ads industry, unfortunately they are a huge part of why news organizations, YouTube, Reddit, and more grant free access to content.

Show threadthermonuclear small claimsJul 17, 2024

@FineWolf I believe information should be available to all as well. That includes information about major changes Mozilla makes, and why they're making those changes. They buried this. If they really believe in this model, why aren't they out there selling it to their users? Or at least informing them about it? Why try to quietly implement such a major change?

Firefox is just 3% of the browser market. Everyone who uses Firefox seeks it out deliberately, we are engaged users, we care about the values Mozilla puts at the forefront of its company (transparency, privacy, user choice and consent).

There is no reason to do it this way. This kind of disregard for their user base and their own core values in favour of pleasing advertisers who /are not their market/ is the first step to enshittification.

Show threadAndrew MooreJul 17, 2024

@fullfathomfive

Yeah, I fully agree with that. Communication from Mozilla was lacking to say the least, and it's disappointing as it's putting this initiative at risk; an initiative that I do believe is key to eliminating invasive behaviour tracking.

Show threadVíctor A. Rodríguez Jul 17, 2024
@FineWolf A Word About Private Attribution in Firefox by Firefox CTO
https://libreddit.kavin.rocks/r/firefox/comments/1e43w7v/a_word_about_private_attribution_in_firefox/
A Word About Private Attribution in Firefox - r/firefox

View on Redlib, an alternative private front-end to Reddit.

Show threadVíctor A. Rodríguez Jul 17, 2024
@FineWolf @jonah please take a look
Show threadJonah Aragon Jul 17, 2024

@bitman @FineWolf doesn’t really change what I think about it. This article makes the same mistake Mozilla is making, which is assuming that the pushback is caused by people not understanding the technical privacy benefits over the status quo.

In reality, the problem is Mozilla’s long track record of not understanding and taking user consent seriously, and the fundamental misalignment of interest Mozilla has here by creating software with *anyone* other than the end user directly in mind (https://mastodon.neat.computer/@jonah/112785705035728306).

I do also have some technical complaints about PPA, but these are minor in comparison to these two (recurring) problems that Mozilla refuses to address.

Jonah Aragon (@[email protected])

I really see this Firefox PPA stuff as basically the same as Apple’s ill-conceived plan to scan all the photos on your device to report you to the feds when you text your kid’s doctor or whatever. Your own software that you run on your own computer should NEVER tattle on you to anyone, whether it’s law enforcement or the advertising industry. If your data’s really that interesting they can put in a little effort on their end to obtain it. Otherwise, personal devices must not become surveillance machines. https://blog.privacyguides.org/2024/07/14/mozilla-disappoints-us-yet-again-2/ #firefox #ppa #privacy #surveillance

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