Jon WorthNot a full #CrossBorderRail thread today as I’m not crossing any borders 🙂
But the Birdy is with me for the trip to Nantes via Dijon and Nevers
TER 91373
08:40 Nuits-sous-Ravières - Dijon Ville 09:27
SNCF for TER Mobigo BFC
114.64 km/h average
89.8 km
3 stops
Train type: Alstom Régiolis 6 carriages
Also a quick aside…
What’s with station names in France?
My Intercités later stops at St Pierre des Corps - a station on the edge of the city Tours, but Tours isn’t in the station name
Likewise Les Aubrais is on the edge of Orléans, but Orléans isn’t in the name
But they stuck Challes-les-Eaux (popn 5600) on the Chambéry station name although the station isn’t there
And three towns are named at Le Creusot TGV…
The information system on the TER Nuits-sous-Ravières to Dijon was broken
So I wasn’t once warned about gaps between trains and platforms, or to label my bags
And the world didn’t end! 🤯
TER 93011
09:54 Dijon (Ville?) - Nevers 12:19
SNCF for TER Mobigo BFC 88.18km/h
213.1km
9 stops
Bi-mode AGC train, electric first, diesel later. 4 carriages, 4 further carriages to Clermont Ferrand
Upsides of AGC trains (if you’re in the low floor section): massive windows
And the seats are comfortable
Downside: small wheels and no yaw dampers mean a pretty bumpy ride
We’ve now been warned that we can only get out once the train has stopped, and if there is a platform there
Given this is a modern train with centrally locked doors *being able to not respect that would require a staff error*
So announcements like this are for SNCF to legally cover themselves, not actually for any purpose for passengers
Ah
“Objet sur les voies” somewhere near Montchanin
Diverted into Chagny and stuck
Glad I’m on Interrail and can re-plan all of this 🙂
Ah that’s nice
I had to show a map to the train manager to explain to her what is and isn’t blocked here. At the very least SNCF could inform its staff where blockages are
“But freight takes a different route!”
Err no. Not here. Don’t talk shit.
I’ve ended up with a bigger railway organisation f*** up here in Bourgogne than I encountered in 4 weeks in the Balkans! 😀
A reasonable railway - like DB or ÖBB - would have told passengers for Nevers, Bourges etc - to go to Lyon, and held the Intercités there 10 mins for them. Or go via Paris on a TGV.
But that’s another part of SNCF (this is TER Bourgogne Franche Comté) so they can’t do that.
And there’s little spare capacity in the system *anyway* as everyone is so obsessed maximising yield on each train, so there’s no flex in case of disruption.
France has all the disadvantages of a liberalised railway and all the disadvantages of a state operated railway, and pretty much none of the upsides of either.
It’s like “ha ha, who the hell are you, sucker, you stooped to the level of taking a TER! You had it coming for you that it’d not work out. Like why would anyone in their right mind do that? Drive a car instead!”
And to those of you going “there’s a warning light” in response to the earlier toot: it doesn’t work
Safety conscious SNCF my arse
And the point here isn’t safety only, but consistency
A rail firm that warns you with audio messages not to open the doors all the time - when you can’t because they’re locked
BUT
Has a crossing like this with warning lights that don’t work and no staff
HAS A CONSISTENCY PROBLEM
Ah. Top quality.
Due to the disruption at Chagny the train is running in reverse order (first train Clermont, second train Nevers).
I help a Dutch couple who are hence in the wrong half of the train. They ask the station manager at Montchanin who’s NOT been told the train is in reverse order…
… and it turns out I’m right and the station manager is wrong.
Number of announcements to assist passengers: none.
“To travel on this train you must have a valid ticket”
FFS. Thanks for that.
Also to those going “France has a privatised rail system for long distance trains”, NO it doesn’t.
It has a state owned railway, but for long distance services it’s supposed to be at least cost neutral. That’s a very different thing to “private”.
I’m now finally on the move, heading towards Nevers about 90 mins late.
First stop: Le Creusot
No staff on platform. Train manager doesn’t step down onto platform. Signs on the train not working. So passengers don’t know what train this is pitching up at an odd time at the station.
Meanwhile on board the train manager hasn’t bothered with an announcement or explanation of any sort.
Oh yay. A tree falling on the track: not the responsibility of SNCF says the train manager. Isn’t there some responsibility to cut back trees?
Train manager radioing ahead about connections: not my responsibility says the train manager. “You have to go to the desk in Nevers!”
What the **** is your responsibility?
And I tried explaining that the Intercités Lyon - Nevers - Nantes is +80, my Dijon - Nevers is +90, and given there was 8 mins to change… it might help me and fellow passengers…
… but yeah, you guessed it. Not the train manager’s responsibility.
Ah. We’ve racked up more delay due to speed restrictions
I presume Bourgogne Franche Comté didn’t take responsibility to pay SNCF Réseau to take responsibility for its tracks
Also this situation isn’t dissimilar to last month in Slovenia where my Ljubljana - Celje was delayed meaning I’d miss a connection to Imeno
But there the train manager was proactive, worked out a solution to change in Grobelno instead, and I made it
Here today? 🤷♂️
I’ll get to Nantes eventually, but there are people here going much further. Will they I wonder?
And to top it all: train manager makes an announcement arriving in Nevers warning us that leaving luggage behind can lead to a fine, but no word of apology for 100 mins delay
Damn I hate French railways
Shit goes wrong. I get it. But show some solidarity with your damned passengers!
Also why did SNCF not electrify Chagny - Le Creusot (about 40km), and build connecting curves as shown with the arrows?
Doing so would
1) Speed up Strasbourg/Mulhouse/Besançon to Lyon/The South TGVs
2) Provide a diversion route for Dijon-Paris TGVs when there are works on the old Dijon-Les Laumes-Laroche line the TGVs take (closures there this autumn)
It’d even lessen the load on Dijon-Chalon s/ Saône-Maçon-Lyon that’s v full
Damn. Who could possibly resist the appeal of going sitting on a platform like this *without a valid ticket*? 🤷♂️
But you’d likely not get fined as checking wouldn’t be anyone’s responsibility
Nevers
Another amazing French system
This Intercités Nevers - Nantes is NOT compulsory reservation. But you can reserve. But there’s no way to know if seats are reserved or not. So is someone going to come here or not?
Oh and some smart arse responses: yes, for €12 I could reserve and hence find out
But given I wasn’t even meant to be on this train and only am due to the disruption earlier, I’m not paying due to an issue SNCF caused
Were SNCF a decent rail company it’d have signs on a train like this to indicate what is and isn’t reserved
I asked the train manager - who was friendly - if she could tell me what seat wasn’t reserved. Even her app had no proper overview, but after a bunch of taps she found something
I go there… and another passenger is there because he too couldn’t know it was free or not
So there is a system buried away in SNCF Connect to find free seats. But 🥁 it doesn’t correspond to the reality here, because it doesn’t update in light of who didn’t actually board…
The up side: west of Vierzon this is a really nice route
Towns, villages, castles, rivers, orchards, vineyards
It was worthwhile coming this way, even if I don’t attempt this again in future
I didn’t really conclude the thread. Got to Nantes 3 hours later than planned. At least the Nevers - Nantes Intercité ran as planned
And tomorrow I’m looking forward to exploring. And when you’re in a city with a famous Le Corbusier building… 🙂 https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cit%C3%A9_radieuse_de_Rez%C3%A9?wprov=sfti1#
Martha
Ole
Cécile Hébert@jon did you finally reach Nantes?
srslypascal@jon I had to look up "Vierzon" to convince myself that it isn't a misspelled version of "Verizon" 🙈
Tobias Kausch@jon wow, didn't know this one, the app sure trys to hide it's more useful features, at least they show me rental ads every time I booked a ticket 😅
Wrzlbrnft@jon You need to show me where one can see these free seats. 😄
Sarah Wilson has moved@jon €12 just to reserve a seat? Or does that include a ticket, too?
@ScottAS2 seat. My ticket is Interrail.
Lukas 🎢🇨🇭@jon but normally you see it in the SNCF Conect App, at least on the IC Hendaye - Bayonne - Tarbes - Toulouse it worked.
Just enter the train in the timetable search and it should show you which seats are not reserved. Complicated but at least that. But yes signs would be a lot better...
Just enter the train in the timetable search and it should show you which seats are not reserved. Complicated but at least that. But yes signs would be a lot better...
Sven@jon #SNCF is a good example of how to make traveling as complicated as possible for their #customers, in everything: planning, reservation, boarding, traveling.
Janeishly
Quixoticgeek@jon the idea of having to reserve a seat at all on public transport breaks the idea of it being public transport.
@quixoticgeek I can tolerate optional reservation. But not compulsory reservation.
@jon It's not your responsibility to sit in an unreserved seat.
@ScottAS2 Haaaaaa. Or anyone’s responsibility to tell me what’s reserved.
Guillaume Endignoux@jon Sounds like any swiss intercity train: seat reservations are not mandatory (and hardly anybody bothers), but if you want you can reserve a seat on any train for an extra fee. Given that nobody reserves it's not an issue.
What works well: big groups (like schools) are put together in the same carriage, with announcements on the platforms of where the groups seat. The staff also marks these group reservations with papers on the windows. ✅️
@gendx and Switzerland - like Germany, Austria, Czechia, Slovenia, Denmark etc - indicates what’s reserved with signs.
🌺 Cat Pöñíçkøvā@jon @gendx now you're just grumpy? seat reservation signs are outright missing half of the time in czechia and half of the train is usually in the "express reservation" mode where the reservation is available up to the last minute until departure from the station (not originating but any) so it means nothing anyway
Andreas K@jon Don't worry, that is flexibly decided, by the fighting power of the person who takes the seat versus the fighting power of the person who has reserved it.
The usual pattern is that you can either only reserve up to the moment the train leaves the initial station. Then the reservation is either displayed by electronic displays or manually shown.
Or that only some cars are used for reserved seating and the other cars are free to use. It's rather impossible to do it differently.
eena meena me@jon is that a good thing?
@meena hard to say. It likely means the ballast is thin and old, so the track somewhat ill maintained and susceptible to flooding.
@jon wasn't this because of some faux green policy of refusing to use actually effective pesticides
Oliver Wintzheimer@jon nature is healing. ;)
Phil Dennis-Jordan@jon My kids occasionally like to go to the station just to sit on the platform and watch the trains. (And wave to the drivers.) Good to know that would be INTERDIT in Nevers.
Norra kommissionen@jon Electrification at least seems to be planned, though with 25kV whereas Dijon south is still at 1500V.
@nordkommission no. Cancelled. Open Railway Map is wrong.
@jon So it would seem, at least the region "considers" your second idea.
Accélération des travaux en 2023 sur la ligne Nevers-Chagny, mais sans électrification
La régénération de la voie ferrée sur l'axe Nevers-Chagny de la VFCEA fera l'objet d'un des plus gros chantiers de SNCF réseau à partir de 2023. Pour autant, l'électrification du tronçon n'est pas à l'ordre du jour.
@nordkommission it’s been considered. But given Bourgogne Franche Comté is poor and the transport minister an idiot…
Bálint Szilakszi@jon I’m spoiled by ÖBB infra publishing detailed plans for what projects they plan for the next 5 years to meet goals set until 2040.
@szbalint Right. Which also has the buy in of the state.
Rémi Cardona@jon SO MANY THINGS WRONG in this area. So many facepalms, which ever way you look at it.
The (former?) VFCEA project suggested many improvements, including ⚡, some are being carried out, but most have been shelved (or rather, never approved in the first place).
And given BFC's current regional administration, there's no local traction for improvements. It won't get any better for the foreseeable future.
@remi indeed, totally. It’s massively annoying. BFC is a transport basket case.
Hubert Figuière@jon one of these announcement they are required to make or they get written off.
Roseanna Cunningham 🏴🖖@jon you’re not exactly selling French rail travel atm 😂
@strathearnrose Croatia or Serbia would have handled this better
Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸@jon not that dissimilar to DB though. Last summer, my sister faced massive delays in ICEs on her way from Vienna, the last ICE on her rescheduled journey (from Leipzig to Munchen IIRC) was delayed like by 2 hours. Plenty of passengers, including her, were going to Kassel, they had tickets with change in Bad Hersfeld IIRC, but ICE with all the delays was projected to arrive at Bad Hersfeld simultaneously with the departure of the last (Kassel-bound RE) other train this day, from the opposite track on the same platform.
They all (there were like 20 people) talked to the ICE train manager, train manager said that there is no problem, that they'll definitely be able to catch that RE.
So they exited the ICE in Bad Hersfeld, but it was delayed by two more minutes, so RE already departed, right on schedule. And as they were trying to figure things out, ICE departed too, leaving them at that small town at night, with no other trains from that station for the next five hours.
(Luckily those who decided to not look for a hotel were able to find a taxi company and wake up a driver and get to Kassel after all, and luckily DB compensated the (very high) taxi bill. But still this would not have happened if reason manager did something DB held that RE there for just a few minutes. I was later told that that's impossible because RE is operated by DB regio which is a different entity... but that's the same excuse as in France, and also the train manager could have at least said that, instead of assuring everybody that they'll definitely get to Kassel if they exit the train in Bad Hersfeld.)
@IngaLovinde sure it can happen in Germany too (and theoretically DB has a digital system to assess situations like this). But this train manager wasn’t even willing to listen to the idea he could do something.
@jon yeah I mean that ICE train manager clearly wasn't willing to listen either, it's just that on the surface he demonstrated it not with "I don't care, not my responsibility" but with "don't worry, everything's going to be fine" (and not doing anything of substance, just as his SNCF counterpart).
Which does keep the passengers' mood up, but only for a short while (as long as they're on the same train with this manager), and does not actually solve the problem.
Which does keep the passengers' mood up, but only for a short while (as long as they're on the same train with this manager), and does not actually solve the problem.
Samy@jon Maybe too busy checking bag for proper labelling…