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@hipsterelectron Tor actually has a FAQ asking people to not use Tor for bittorrent because it stresses the network
IPFS has done some work in this space, we're not sure how far along that aspect is
@hipsterelectron oh. drat.
I2p is an overlay network that does support bittorrent, although that falls significantly short of true anonymization, for reasons you can probably already see
and even if you change the pseudonym regularly, if you advertise the same set of dht entries your pseudonyms can also be correlated with each other.
@ireneista @hipsterelectron designed to support onion routing internally for all messages, and in testing it seems to be quite fast in doing so
biggest problem right now is lack of deployment
@lispi314 @ireneista @hipsterelectron @beka_valentine you could write a veilid node that uses multiple ids at once (or at least i didn’t find anything that prevented that when i was looking into it).
but veilid’s layering makes it significantly harder to disassociate sequential identities of the same node by what data they host - they have a DHT built in right along with the routing protocol.
i’m doubtful that multiple ids will actually save you though. i haven’t examined it in detail yet, but my intuition is that even if each person uses 100 ids you’ll be able to track people sharing say 1000 pieces of data randomly divided amongst the ids. (much less any sort of division optimized to improve queries like the fraction nearest by edit distance).
i’m vaguely hopeful about a friend network over an privately routed network. if you all rotate node identifiers such that you only send messages to an identifier of generation n from an identifier of generation n, there may be a chance of cleanly separating identifiers from each other (from anyone who’s not your friend that is). then you just have the problem of how much you trust your friends and finding content in a friend network…
@lispi314 @ireneista @hipsterelectron @beka_valentine yeah, once you get to each top-level item on a node gets its own overlay network identifier that certainly prevents correlating content. i’m hesitant that giving each node that many identifiers wouldn’t lead to being able to correlate address on the same node though. (and any answer to means digging deep into the protocol and its assumptions :/)
My concern with friend-to-friend networks is that their security tends to fail catastrophically the second someone gets compromised and an infiltrator is substituted onto the network.
so this broadly falls under “how much you trust your friends”, but i’m not clear that your friend being compromised is much worse in a friend net situation than a not friend net situation (assuming communication over an overlay network and not directly like freenet/hyphanet). the most informative data flows from friend to friend anyway. the link to decrypt and verify data is far more sensitive than the ciphertext.
unfortunately (for anyone hoping for this to have a reasonable UI) i think we probably need both for different circumstances :/
@lispi314 @ireneista @dalias @Qbitzerre re: Monero you're speaking from absolute ignorance. Monero's underlying technologies are all established, proven crypto primitives. Monero stealth addresses are built on Diffie-Hellman key exchange, no one is breaking those. Monero RingCT has been peer reviewed in a number of journals.
https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/1098
https://eprint.iacr.org/2023/321
To say its security lacks formal proofs is simply false, although you could accurately make that assertion about Zcash.
This article introduces a method of hiding transaction amounts in the strongly decentralized anonymous cryptocurrency Monero. Similar to Bitcoin, Monero is a cryptocurrency which is distributed through a proof of work ``mining'' process. The original Monero protocol was based on CryptoNote, which uses ring signatures and one-time keys to hide the destination and origin of transactions. Recently the technique of using a commitment scheme to hide the amount of a transaction has been discussed and implemented by Bitcoin Core Developer Gregory Maxwell. In this article, a new type of ring signature, A Multi-layered Linkable Spontaneous Anonymous Group signature is described which allows for hidden amounts, origins and destinations of transactions with reasonable efficiency and verifiable, trustless coin generation. The author would like to note that early drafts of this were publicized in the Monero Community and on the bitcoin research irc channel. Blockchain hashed drafts are available in \cite{Snoe}.
@hyc @lispi314 @dalias @Qbitzerre so like, full disclosure here, we have never looked into Monero in particular
but we did sit through a whole talk at PEPR 2023 from someone whose consulting firm specializes in building know-your-customer compliance features for cryptocurrency exchanges
@ireneista @lispi314 @dalias @Qbitzerre in most cases I agree with this point. But re: Monero, govts themselves have sealed their own fates. By pushing to ban Monero from the regulated centralized crypto exchanges, they've encouraged the community to develop decentralized exchanges, thus losing any chance at maintaining insight or control on its usage. The IRS tried and failed to break Monero's privacy https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/z9j62d/the_irs_bounty_the_full_story/
Now all they can do is pretend it doesn't exist.
@ireneista @lispi314 @dalias @Qbitzerre all of that is true, but you don't need to obtain Monero from KYC-compliant vendors, nor do businesses that accept Monero payments need to obtain such info.
You can mine Monero yourself on an old smartphone or PC.
This article introduces a method of hiding transaction amounts in the strongly decentralized anonymous cryptocurrency Monero. Similar to Bitcoin, Monero is a cryptocurrency which is distributed through a proof of work ``mining'' process. The original Monero protocol was based on CryptoNote, which uses ring signatures and one-time keys to hide the destination and origin of transactions. Recently the technique of using a commitment scheme to hide the amount of a transaction has been discussed and implemented by Bitcoin Core Developer Gregory Maxwell. In this article, a new type of ring signature, A Multi-layered Linkable Spontaneous Anonymous Group signature is described which allows for hidden amounts, origins and destinations of transactions with reasonable efficiency and verifiable, trustless coin generation. The author would like to note that early drafts of this were publicized in the Monero Community and on the bitcoin research irc channel. Blockchain hashed drafts are available in \cite{Snoe}.
@hyc @lispi314 @ireneista with the understanding that i don’t expect cryptographically relevant quantum computers any time soon - do you have any references to the implications for ringct and monero of that possibility?
all i’ve got at the moment is kearney & perez-delgado 2021, which seems to be more concerned with stealing than tracing money.
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