ladel
mccJust basically gonna have to assume for the rest of our lives that any cloud/content hosting service offered for free is at best temporary and at worst some kind of trap
(Screenshot source is an email I received this morning.)
I think the one free service I trust not to someday fuck up on me is Neocities, and that only because it appears to be run by ideologues (the fact it is run with an explicit anti-growth policy, and that the service it offers is intentionally so limited, also helps)
PS check out my web sight on neocities!! https://mcc.neocities.org/
I hate that, in the "AI" era, this argument actually makes a lot of sense https://toot.cat/@jamey/112671927674516582
Jamey Sharp (@[email protected])
@[email protected] Given that they've been holding onto the full history but only letting you see the most recent messages for years, I actually think it's an improvement if they start deleting posts that they won't show you anyway. Doesn't make it any less of a trap, of course
I *also* hate how much sense this makes. https://feed.hella.cheap/@bob/statuses/01J158M7XFJ3ETD5GGXDV8BHXC
(Normally at this point I'd go down a rabbit hole of scrutinizing Slack's TOS/privacy policy with a magnifying glass trying to figure out whether anything legally binds Slack to Actually Delete everything that gets deleted from the service, but that is probably not the best possible use of my morning.)
Post by bob, @[email protected]
@[email protected] what makes you think "delete" means actually delete and not update posts set deleted=true
joël@mcc would be interesting to try to use the GDPR (or similar legislation compelling them to give you your data) against this.
FoolishOwl@mcc I was in a group that ran up against usage limits on Slack and migrated to self-hosted Mattermost. Everyone hated it because it wasn't *exactly* the same as Slack.
Light Owl ☸️@foolishowl @mcc I too gave Mattermost Team server (the non-Enterprise, free and Open Source version) a try for a couple of years. I had about 140 casual, light users, total.
Should anyone else like to test Mattermost Team server out, I wrote an installation guide (slightly dated, but effectively should still work) for installing it on a Raspberry Pi:
https://forums.raspberrypi.com/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=269505&p=1635472#p1635472
lil5 
🚲 🇳🇱
bob@mcc what makes you think "delete" means actually delete and not update posts set deleted=true
lutoma@mcc @bob Oh yeah, I now see that the linked post already said basically the same thing as I did, sorry for the repetition.
But I don't really see the upside for Slack in that scenario since it would not save them any storage costs while removing a powerful sales motivator (And I have no doubts they're already training some AI nonsense on customer data and would sell data to OpenAI or similar in a heartbeat).
@mcc @lutoma even if you want to delete stuff, on a technical level it's much easier to mark things as deleted and then maybe do a compaction later than it is to actually delete it. even if you're just using a sql database an update query that sets the deleted flag (even if that flag is indexed) is a lot cheaper than a delete query
Daniel Lindsley@mcc I'd like to report a bug. Missing a `<under_construction.gif>`...
Butternuts 🦆@mcc these are extremely cool images, but what does the page title mean
@batterpunts the page title is a joke based on runhello.com being the name of my "real" website. the title is a fake advertisement advertising various unlikely items you will find at runhello.com
On My Walk@mcc
Thanks for introducing me to neocities!
Thanks for introducing me to neocities!
Matthew LettucePie@mcc I like your art. Reminds me of those Game of Life math puzzle simulation things.
Not a Spring Onion@mcc
"Oh look, free cheese" said one mouse to another.
"Oh look, free cheese" said one mouse to another.
Chris Cunningham@mcc in fairness this also applies to about 60% of things I've paid money for
Pete / Syllopsium@chriscunningham @mcc Especially Google. I *really* need to move off my (still free) business e-mail accounts (they changed the T&Cs to make historically free accounts non free for businesses, but I'm not using mine for commercial purposes). Functionality changes you can't opt out of *even if* you pay them money.
The most important question is how easily your data can be transferred to an equivalent service.
My business advice would be to never sign up to anything where data export isn't included free of charge in your contract. It doesn't have to be already present, but it has to be free, and well defined as to what and how it will be exported.
Michaela Sue@chriscunningham @mcc Yeah, *that's* an issue for sure!
vana vqlc@chriscunningham @mcc What kills me is my last job used (and presumably paid an obscene amount of money for) Slack, and they *chose* to implement a "delete everything older than x months" policy. I get that lawyers really want this but it hurt when "let's search for the last time this happened" was foundational to so much problem solving.
Calcedony Prime@mcc deleted? Seems like a waste of good LLM training material.
Woozle Hypertwin@mcc This is new? This is why our friendgroup switched away from Slack a decade or more ago. Did they start keeping stuff indefinitely at some point in order to lure people back?
Stefan Bohacek@mcc Well, I for one hope this will inspire people to put more of the shared knowledge that would be lost on their blogs and wikis.
Jamey Sharp@mcc Given that they've been holding onto the full history but only letting you see the most recent messages for years, I actually think it's an improvement if they start deleting posts that they won't show you anyway. Doesn't make it any less of a trap, of course
Brian Skinn@jamey @mcc 100%, I'd much rather they scrub the history of the purely social free-plan Slacks I'm on. We all only really want those to be transient anyways, I'll be happy for them to save themselves the storage costs.
This _is_ a problem for orgs that end up needing/wanting to be on a free-plan runway for more than a year, though, for sure.
Mitex Leo@mcc "Cloud is just someone else's computer"
Alexandre Oliva (moved to @enshittification is an irresistible strategy for profit- or power-seeking suppliers, so when you're considering products or services to rely on, you should think not so much of how attractive the temporary honey on them is, but how stinky they can get once they're enshittified, which they will be unless you keep your freedom, that is, keep them under your control.
https://www.fsfla.org/~lxoliva/#Unshittify
https://www.fsfla.org/~lxoliva/#Unshittify
unlucio 🌍 
@mcc It's always, and always has been, safe to assume that no company is our friend 🤷♂️
Ludovic :Firefox: :FreeBSD:@mcc Geocities !!!!
Hans van Zijst@mcc Excellent assumption. There's no such thing as a free breakfast.
If you want to keep control over your communications, the only real way is to do it yourself, or have someone you trust do it for you if you lack knowledge/time. Vendor lock-in sucks, we see that over and over again.
If you want to keep control over your communications, the only real way is to do it yourself, or have someone you trust do it for you if you lack knowledge/time. Vendor lock-in sucks, we see that over and over again.
@mcc How big is your personal data backup?
Dieter Komendera@mcc I guess it‘s a safe bet the content will live on in some LLM trained on it though 🙃
Mark Hughes@mcc This has been apparent for some time. And it is one of many reasons why the #p2p project #Autonomi is going to make waves.
It provides cloud like storage, pay once stored forever, for real. It is an autonomous network with a built in economy based on those wanting storage rewarding those who are providing it. Privacy and security designed in from the ground up.
At least that's the plan, and we will soon be able to see if it works: launches in October.
truh@markhughes @mcc is it just discourse forum where people talk about the price of some shitcoin?
looopTools@mcc This is partially why I wanna setup my own zulip server 😅
Ian Douglas Scott@mcc And I'm not sure you can trust them just because you're paying money either.
A lot of the promise of centralized services was that this wouldn't happen. If all the data is going to be deleted anyway, maybe it's not so bad to just self-host without any backups.
@mcc unlimited tier means "we won't tell you the limits"
ParzivalWolfram@docRekd @mcc while true, there's always a way to find the limit: fuck around and find out. if the support staff don't know how many messages per second an account is allowed to send, or how much data an account is allowed to store in message history, start piping messages in at high speeds and wait for it to fall apart.
@mcc @parzivalwolfram or it could be cloudflare, start to throttle access to your business critical sites, then try to upsell on their enterprise plan when you try to contact their customer service
ShadowInTheVoid
ploum@mcc : There’s no cloud. It’s just someone else’s computer.
Walrus 🏴I never trusted them anyway...
Sibshops@mcc There is no such thing as a free lunch.
TC Won't Give In To Lies@mcc
Free anything is a trap, designed either to lure you into ads or into paying for something down the road.
Free anything is a trap, designed either to lure you into ads or into paying for something down the road.
vieuxnez@mcc that’s what I assumed about online emails… 20ish years ago? It’s not a bad thought to keep in mind, but some of these services have turned out to be relatively stable. So far…
Que@mcc they are owned by salesforce, it’s just a downward slope to replacement by a new service
Matthew Clapham@mcc
Yup. Institutionalised ransomware.
Yup. Institutionalised ransomware.
Paul McGuire@mcc If you get something for free, you (or your data) are the product.
Amaya 🌹@mcc we live in a society…