quercusIberica
Esst euer Gemüse
Merijn 👨💻
@Bediko if I could pull it off to post this in the developers chat at my work, I would! 🤣
Ozzelot 
Stephan Schulz@Bediko The problem is that in many projects requirements are indeed changing every two weeks - and the important ones are often implicit and unstated. That breaks every project management approach, not just agile. Agile works if you have flat boring feature sets on top of an existing suitable data model, and a product owner who actually wants to use (not sell) the product.
jnfrd Jan@StephanSchulz @Bediko I always wonder why nasa can send things pretty far away, remote debug over 100k of kilometers and people still claim that working software can’t be done or that planning does not work.
@jnfrd @Bediko They spend an ungodly amount of money per line of code - and that includes requirements engineering (not a brainstorming session among whoever was there at the moment). Front-loading projects sometimes works, but is hard to sell. I once promised to do a project with 3 engineers in 2 years. Management went with the guy who promised to do it in half. 4 years later I left the company, and the 5 engineer-staffed project was still far from useable.
@StephanSchulz @Bediko yes. But things aren’t black and white and I think one can find a sensible middle ground.
Also. An iterative process can be a very good fit for software development. It shouldn’t involve sprints though. And no tshirts either.
Glyph@jnfrd @StephanSchulz @Bediko a “sensible middle ground” between NASA’s budget and the average software company’s budget is functionally just still NASA’s budget. They are operating at different orders of magnitude. Conservatively, NASA spends 2000% more per line of code than the rest of the industry and I believe this is still a huge undercount: https://www.nasa.gov/history/sts1/pages/computer.html#:~:text=In%20an%20industry%20where%20the,development%20and%20support%20of%20PASS.
@glyph @StephanSchulz @Bediko there is a lot of space between no planning and just iterating senselessly until the project grinds to a halt, and nasa.
MarkV@jnfrd @glyph @StephanSchulz @Bediko Also it seems that NASA does actually use Agile 😅
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20160006387/downloads/20160006387.pdf
AdeptVeritatis@glyph @jnfrd @StephanSchulz @Bediko
That is from the later 1970's. The time, when computing was relatively new.
Nowadays, NASA doesn't need to work on, if software works. A lot of frameworks exist with a lot of known best practices.
The gap between NASA and other software developers is still enormous, but this ratio is most probably outdated.
Bernd@StephanSchulz @jnfrd @Bediko I read somewhere (maybe it was Feynman) that code development speed for the Space Shuttle was about 1 (in words: One) line of code per week.
@hopfgeist @jnfrd @Bediko IIRC, "The mythical man month" has something like 10 lines per programmer per day, for production-quality code. And independent of the language, so high-level languages do give a boost in functionality per time...
Jeff C@StephanSchulz @Bediko I have a good story about that... "3 types of projects"
SvavarSadly, whoever created that graphic is disillusioned with a crappy Agile team, probably in a dysfunctional organisation.
I could refute each bullet point but I can't be bothered. They are all basically misunderstandings or signs of Agile being done badly.
Agile needs buy in from the top, and a culture of trust and collaboration.
When done well, alongside the Agile engineering practices, it works great.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the exception rather than the norm.
Artax
eighthourlunch@svavar Sounds like no true Scotsman to me. I've never seen it work, not even once. I've also never seen any peer reviewed research that supported its use. As far as I've been able to observe, Agile is just another baseless religion that happens to be followed by a lot of corporate IT departments.
hukl@nblr warum repostest du das denn? Das ist ja so ungefähr 💩fD FUD Niveau.
~n@hukl Du kennst das "They have played us for absolute fools"-meme aber, oder?
@nblr mhmm does not ring a particular bell :D
@hukl i see.
you might want to look it up.
glaube, manchmal verschätze ich mich in dem was man den followies hier zutrauen kann.
Ich hatte heute morgen ein halbes dutzend "HääÄäÄ, aber MSA stellt doch gar keine Drohnen her?!" replies erwartet, aber diesen repost als ehr safe und witzig eingeschätzt (-:
@nblr hehe ja ich heische auch nicht jedem Meme hinterher was nicht bei 3 auffe Bäume ist - seit dem Ende von Soup.io fühle ich mich da oft unterinformiert - hach soup.io - wo ziehst du denn deine Meme News? :D
Frank
@nblr hehe ja also jetzt wo ich mich informiert habe ists witzig :D aber deswegen frage ich ja nach. Dachte mir schon, dass da noch mehr (oder weniger) dahinter steckt.
GreenSkyOverMe (Monika)@Bediko Had du das gebastelt?
Kotes@Bediko I guess agile development is a buzzword that creates hell for engineers in the field.
Ian Bradbury
MikeK
Frank_NL@Bediko @bootblackcub OMG yes please. The number of non productive meetings i have been in 😱
There are some good points in the methodology but only use those not the full thing. I like the shorter sprint delivery of subgoals as it allows to check progress more and if you are still on track. No need to have 5 meetings surrounding that though.
Conor@conorporter @willhbr No, more memes
Sasha@Bediko these So called "Agilist" are mad! They actually think people are more important than process? Working software? How are we going to get paid if we they don't need us anymore!
Jake Carpenter@Bediko Nothing about this is Agile. It's Scrum. Scrum is garbage and does a very good job of doing the opposite of Agile core principles.
tomap@Bediko cc @nickchapsas & your last video on YouTube :)
Pete Bleackley@Bediko Agile Development: when the boss expects you to bend over backwards.
Word of Mouth 🍄 
@Bediko
Nailed it.
I have our 2 PMs somewhat potty-trained, tho. We let the chickens lay eggs while we make the bacon. It gives them something to do.
The burndown chart is hilarious! Pretty spot on, except ours always seems to look like the San Francisco skyline.
The trick is to somehow wrest control of the SDLC from PMs and other chickens. Our QA lead spearheaded the project, and it's worked pretty well.
We basically set up "triggers" that pass the buck, and it eventually lands in the biz's laps in the form of UAT. We don't release until UAT is signed off. A trigger might be moving a ticket to "Ready for Merge" and doing a PR. Or merging all the feature branches into a release candidate to trigger regression testing.
We also taught our PMs to clone tickets and split points, then close the clone and move the original to the next sprint, so we can account for partial completion. Hence the San Francisco skyline.
AGILE only works if the dev team sorta quasi-unionizes and takes control of the process, but in a transparent way.
Nailed it.
I have our 2 PMs somewhat potty-trained, tho. We let the chickens lay eggs while we make the bacon. It gives them something to do.
The burndown chart is hilarious! Pretty spot on, except ours always seems to look like the San Francisco skyline.
The trick is to somehow wrest control of the SDLC from PMs and other chickens. Our QA lead spearheaded the project, and it's worked pretty well.
We basically set up "triggers" that pass the buck, and it eventually lands in the biz's laps in the form of UAT. We don't release until UAT is signed off. A trigger might be moving a ticket to "Ready for Merge" and doing a PR. Or merging all the feature branches into a release candidate to trigger regression testing.
We also taught our PMs to clone tickets and split points, then close the clone and move the original to the next sprint, so we can account for partial completion. Hence the San Francisco skyline.
AGILE only works if the dev team sorta quasi-unionizes and takes control of the process, but in a transparent way.