Roberta FidoraQuestion for #musician folks on here. Have you uploaded music to streaming services even though you didn't particularly want to? Why? Do you see them as a necessary evil or are you moving away from #streaming altogether? #Musodon #Independent #IndependentMusic #Music #Playlists #Question #FediMusic
Also, if you use streaming services, do you use them to discover music to buy on #Bandcamp, @mirlo, #jamcoop, from a record shop or similar, or is the streaming source where you do all your listening? Just curious about whether your music habits have changed in the last few years. #Music #Listening #Streaming #Playlists
I mostly use streaming as a discovery tool.
I rely solely on streaming for my listening.
I do both but only very occasionally buy.
Other.
Poll ended at .
With my own listening, I used to buy records until they got somewhat unaffordable. I’ve gone back to CDs, WAVs and the occasional record and use YouTube for discovery because I like to see what bands and musicians do for their visuals and videos (growing up on Pop Up Video), plus I study Bandcamp’s social feed. Currently have a free Apple Music subscription too but rarely use it. Before that, I bought everything on CD and read the free music papers/magazines at venues plus a few blogs.
"Musicians are fed up. When even the perpetually mild mannered James Blake is exasperatedly posting about the depressing economic realities of a music industry dominated by streaming and social media, it seems clear that the current system is broken."
https://firstfloor.substack.com/p/a-win-for-who-exactly?utm_campaign=post_embed
Seems streaming reluctance isn’t limited to musicians. https://mastodon.social/@verge/112071553906816398 #Streaming #Spotify #Listening #Musodon #FediMusic
A consistently uplifting and informative newsletter and the linked CDM article rightly asks why more time isn’t being dedicated to independent sites that actually care about and understand the music ecosystem, whilst looking back at many music services that tried and failed because they didn’t. Also quite funny that in the SXSW talk’s crowd at the start, there was only a small whoop for music. 🙃
https://timshiel.substack.com/p/daniels-james-blake-sand-talk-canaries
#TimShiel #Musodon #Music #Mirlo #JamCoop #Bandcamp #FairtradeMusic
Three days left of the poll and some really interesting replies from folks! 📊
John Morahan@RobertaFidora I used to use Spotify. My main reason for doing so was discovery, but I ended up using it for most of my listening because the discovery algorithms were terrible, and I was hoping that they would improve with more data. They did not, and I gave up after a few years. Nowadays most of my discovery is via RFF and despite (or perhaps because of?) the lack of algorithmic recommendations, I've found - and bought - way more new music that I love than I ever did via Spotify.
Ether Diver@RobertaFidora I don't upload my music to them and I'm not planning to do so. I don't believe in allowing my work to be used to make other people money if I'm not going to get any of that money.
@etherdiver That makes perfect sense. I have some on streaming and some only through Bandcamp. It's interesting though and I was thinking about The Caretaker's recent issues with having to upload his music and things you can't do or join unless you've had specific tracks released on streaming services through a distributor (and met a threshold), which is something I encountered recently and thought "hmm, that's a pain".
The Mïghty Kräcken@RobertaFidora A few years ago, I would upload my music wherever I could and participated in whatever social media was available in order to get my music heard. My band has never had a huge pr machine boosting us. It's always been just me.
That being said, I quit Twitter even though I had 10k followers, very rarely open Facebook anymore, and have not joined up for Bluesky or Threads.
If you're looking for a blueprint to success, you'll have to find it elsewhere.
James BrittWanted to grab my name even though I prefer people not use Spotify.
@jamesbritt I think this is a valid reason, even though I feel the same way. I did the same with TikTok. Not massively interested in using it but it thought it should point people towards my website.
Yeah, I much prefer people get my music from Bandcamp but if Spotify, Amazon, etc. means they in fact *hear* it then that's step forward.
william ⁂ maggoshave you played with #funkwhale at all? it's a nice base imo. I wish they'd try to be a decentralized mashup of #mastodon, #bandcamp and #spotify. a place for artists to both get their music promoted on the #fediverse, post/control their music but also a way to get paid for downloads and streams. let labels run servers or have artists do it themselves, sites that can double as their public website. all while letting fans follow, listen and share on any compatible app. #ccmusic
The Software Pagan@wjmaggos @RobertaFidora I feel like that's what Funkwhale *should* be, but people use it like a server to stream their own private collections to themselves.
if it really took off, there wouldn't need to be much of a distinction. everything would be on there cause it would overcome the middleman issues that companies like Spotify create.
@wjmaggos @RobertaFidora Except for that 99% of tracks on Funkwhale are private and can only be listened to by one user lol
@wjmaggos I briefly looked into it and didn’t venture any further because it looked more like a SoundCloud than a Bandcamp-style music space. Also, the descriptions I’ve seen of it previously have seemed overcomplicated for what I need. I’m currently trying out https://jam.coop and @mirlo instead and they’re both very promising.
mg. kit@RobertaFidora I put my music up on all the places except for spotify, amazon, tencent, audible magic, and youtube content ID
my main goal is simply for people to hear my music, not to make money or get Big Numbers, and I know the vast majority of listeners are using streaming services, so I distribute there for them. I avoid audible magic and content ID for similar reasons, I want people to be free to use my music with whatever it is they're doing without having to give up some or all of the revenue they work for, or getting scary automated copyright notices
the fact that I'm off of spotify is a bit counterproductive to that goal though, I know, but I also try to push spotify users into using literally any other option (that isn't amazon or tencent either). I wrote a whole thing about why on my website: https://kerosyn.link/burn-spotify-to-the-ground
as a listener, I haven't used streaming services in years. don't even find them useful as discovery tools or recommendation engines, because things like last.fm and rateyourmusic do a much better job at recommending me things I actually might like instead of pushing the same small handful of big names
my main goal is simply for people to hear my music, not to make money or get Big Numbers, and I know the vast majority of listeners are using streaming services, so I distribute there for them. I avoid audible magic and content ID for similar reasons, I want people to be free to use my music with whatever it is they're doing without having to give up some or all of the revenue they work for, or getting scary automated copyright notices
the fact that I'm off of spotify is a bit counterproductive to that goal though, I know, but I also try to push spotify users into using literally any other option (that isn't amazon or tencent either). I wrote a whole thing about why on my website: https://kerosyn.link/burn-spotify-to-the-ground
as a listener, I haven't used streaming services in years. don't even find them useful as discovery tools or recommendation engines, because things like last.fm and rateyourmusic do a much better job at recommending me things I actually might like instead of pushing the same small handful of big names
Herr Irrtum! 🔊@RobertaFidora
I think from a independent/underground musicians point of view, not using streaming services, but services like Bandcamp, @mirlo or the new star in (complete) audio self publishing: Faircamp...
makes a lot of sense.
But I have no illusion that most of the people, who are more into "passive" music consumption (not actively looking for exciting adventures in discovering new music) will never leave Streaming Services (with those curated playlists and "mood" auto playlist... all that horror) until there is a "better" (for being even more passive) alternative.
And those people will always be the majority. I know even a lot of passionate music lovers, who would never look into Bandcamp. "Why? It's all in my paid flatrate music service!!". And yes, they know about the per stream payment injustice against artists.
My consequences:
I only talk about my Bandcamp (and in the future about Mirlo and Faircamp as well) in the open, which happens to be the Fediverse only (I don't use other social network services).
All my tracks are Creative Commons licensed anyway, I see all those services (Bandcamp style as well as Spotify style) as a bonus and an effective way for distribution.
Anyway, while taking about Bandcamp and such I silently unload my complete albums (not single releases) via a Distrokid-style service to the major streaming platforms as well. Yes that's extra fees, right now I can afford this; it doesn't pay out with average 10 streams per track per service in 3 years.
But the majority of people have access to it through their streaming flatrates, and that's my wish. What I don't like is, that that makes me a victim (in financial terms) that feeds those, who make me a victim.
That's why I actively comment against people who share Spotify playlists here in the Fediverse, as if it's the most natural thing to do. And by the way, that seems to be what those people think. They honestly believe, everyone else has a Spotify account. No, I don't, I will never use any app by Spotify and I tell those people about it - which makes me the obsessed nerd in their eyes. Hmm.
I think from a independent/underground musicians point of view, not using streaming services, but services like Bandcamp, @mirlo or the new star in (complete) audio self publishing: Faircamp...
makes a lot of sense.
But I have no illusion that most of the people, who are more into "passive" music consumption (not actively looking for exciting adventures in discovering new music) will never leave Streaming Services (with those curated playlists and "mood" auto playlist... all that horror) until there is a "better" (for being even more passive) alternative.
And those people will always be the majority. I know even a lot of passionate music lovers, who would never look into Bandcamp. "Why? It's all in my paid flatrate music service!!". And yes, they know about the per stream payment injustice against artists.
My consequences:
I only talk about my Bandcamp (and in the future about Mirlo and Faircamp as well) in the open, which happens to be the Fediverse only (I don't use other social network services).
All my tracks are Creative Commons licensed anyway, I see all those services (Bandcamp style as well as Spotify style) as a bonus and an effective way for distribution.
Anyway, while taking about Bandcamp and such I silently unload my complete albums (not single releases) via a Distrokid-style service to the major streaming platforms as well. Yes that's extra fees, right now I can afford this; it doesn't pay out with average 10 streams per track per service in 3 years.
But the majority of people have access to it through their streaming flatrates, and that's my wish. What I don't like is, that that makes me a victim (in financial terms) that feeds those, who make me a victim.
That's why I actively comment against people who share Spotify playlists here in the Fediverse, as if it's the most natural thing to do. And by the way, that seems to be what those people think. They honestly believe, everyone else has a Spotify account. No, I don't, I will never use any app by Spotify and I tell those people about it - which makes me the obsessed nerd in their eyes. Hmm.
@herr_irrtum "a victim that feeds those who make me a victim" is such a good, succinct way to word that. stealing that
@kit Thank you!!
Luca Mancini 🎶 
@RobertaFidora I uploaded all my music on all streaming services even though I kinda hate them.
The main platforms I'm using and promoting at the moment are Mirlo, Faircamp (still a work in progress) and Bandcamp.
Once the song or album is ready though, is not much effort to put them also on streaming services, just a couple of clicks.
While I don't like those gentlemen using (and possibly making money out of) my craft for free, it is still (unfortunately) the place where the vast majority of people are and that's why my music is there as well.
If I had an audience, I'd drive it to the above mentioned platforms and if that would work (which I honestly doubt), I'd stop uploading on streaming services.
SimonHeartfield@RobertaFidora I've never uploaded anything to Spotify or any other streaming service come to that. The releases of mine that are on Spotify were uploaded by other labels. I'm quite happy with Bandcamp.
7sleepersmusic@RobertaFidora ICYMI It looks like if you don't upload to Spotify someone else will do it for you. I pulled my music from most streaming sites a couple of years ago, I'd rather not go back. But I don't want to make it easy for the criminals, either. Yeesh! https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/13/business/music-streaming-fraud-spotify.html
@7sleepersmusic This happened to The Caretaker too. 😔
AxWax@RobertaFidora @7sleepersmusic
Yes, I've heard of several cases as well, which is why I just started experimenting with uploading to streaming sites for the first time ever.
@RobertaFidora @7sleepersmusic
It seems like that's the modern equivalent to sending yourself a cassette via registered mail...
@axwax @RobertaFidora Yeah, seems like that "digital fingerprint" is effectively your copyright these days. Even so, anyone can file a dispute with the streamers and claim that your song belongs to them, then your tunes get pulled down and it can take months to get them back online. Happened to a few bands a few years back when some scammy promoter tried to blackmail them. Can't win, eh?
@7sleepersmusic @axwax Yes, whenever I register through PPL or the publisher portal I use, I can’t really fill out all the information to get paid unless it’s been distributed through streaming services. For the songs that aren’t on there, I’m considering uploading them to streaming but only on a select few sites.
@7sleepersmusic @axwax I’ll add to that it’s the only benefit I see to it, the “fingerprint” aspect you mention. I don’t think there has been a listener/discovery benefit really for my own music. Bandcamp, Mastodon and a sprinkle of YouTube seem to be the places where I find people into similar stuff to me and where people are way more active in their listening habits.
@RobertaFidora @axwax Yes, I agree, that "fingerprint" is the only real value. In my five years on Spotify I made $30. And it cost me $100 to get on there LOL!
@7sleepersmusic @RobertaFidora
Exactly, I'm simply doing it for the fingerprint. I don't want to make any money with my music anyway, but don't want anyone else to do so either, and I'm not sure having everything under a CC BY-NC-SA license will stop people.
Saying that, I would somehow be equally surprised and delighted if someone would create a "BonkWave To Study To" playlist on Spotify and upload my stuff to it! 😂
Oh, and as I'm a cheapskate I went with amuse.io's free tier...
@7sleepersmusic @axwax Ugh. I didn’t have to pay to get started on there, but I have to reach a threshold every quarter or I don’t get paid anything and it rolls over. 🤷🏻♀️
@RobertaFidora @axwax Oh, that's a drag. What service are you using? I used CD Baby, it was a flat fee of $100 for a full album (7 songs) and it got sent out to pretty much every streaming service on the planet. Didn't expect to get rich, but hoped I could at least recoup. No such luck LOL!
@7sleepersmusic @axwax AWAL. They’re quite good for other stuff though. I didn’t want to be paying a subscription or anything like that.
@RobertaFidora @axwax Ah, I'd never heard of AWAL! Interesting write up here in Rolling Stone, their set up makes a lot of sense, at least on paper. So overall you're happy with them? Are they more or less delivering what you expected? https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/features/why-did-sony-music-just-spend-430-million-on-kobalt-indie-label-awal-1122350/
@7sleepersmusic @axwax I hadn't actually seen that article - thanks! It does what I need it to do. There's a big list comparing distributors here which is worth a look: https://aristake.com/digital-distribution-comparison/
@7sleepersmusic @axwax There's a publishing one too: https://aristake.com/admin-publishing-comparison/
@RobertaFidora @axwax Those are both very helpful, thank you! Got me some learning to do :-)
@7sleepersmusic @axwax No worries. A lot of it may not be relevant but good to know the options!
@RobertaFidora @7sleepersmusic
Oh wow, this looks very useful indeed - I wish I had checked that before I submitted my first release a month ago!
However, I am clearly going places since it went live - look at that trajectory!
If things continue at that rate I'll be rolling in cash in no time! 🤑
@RobertaFidora I missed that story! https://ra.co/news/79953
@7sleepersmusic Pretty depressing stuff.
@RobertaFidora Years ago we used to complain about the "major labels" and their stranglehold on airplay and distribution. Now it seems the "major streamers" are effectively a monopoly. "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose..."
Snap Infraction@RobertaFidora @socool Necessary evil, I suppose. It's hard enough to get people to listen to our music as it is. By limiting the amount of platforms where they can listen, I feel like we are doing ourselves a disservice. Our goal is to get our songs into as many ears as possible, through whatever (reasonable) means possible, be it @radiofreefedi, Bandcamp, Spotify, Apple Music, etc, etc.🤷♂️🤘🏻 #ymmv #greatquestion #foodforthought 🤔
Fugue State Audio@RobertaFidora my thoughts on this are hard to fit in a toot, I'm slowly working on putting them into an article, but the short version is that I've pulled everything I could from moat streaming services and would rather take my chances with other scammers than stay with Spotify et al.
This shouldn't be taken as a condemnation of anyone else for not doing as I have done btw.
This shouldn't be taken as a condemnation of anyone else for not doing as I have done btw.
*_jߍyrope@Roberta Fidora Never used streaming services. And i like downloads, now best available via #Faircamp, where it's #BandcampFriday every day :)