Can we just stop using Discord and go back to using forum sites?

I realize it's (comparatively) super easy to set up, but y'all realize it's just going to bite us all in the ass as soon as someone at Discord decides they need to turn up the profit ratio?

It's a ticking time bomb. The whole thing is going to follow the enshittification process, and anything of value on there is going to be lost/sold/destroyed.

@malcircuit athis. This. This. This. This. This x 1000.

@freeformz @malcircuit @dahukanna Yes! 💯

Discourse is a wonderful open source forum software made by @codinghorror.

They have everything from the license of the software itself to the content produced with it figured out. The UX is immaculate.

The best part: “Discourse” is frequently misunderstood to be “Discord” already. Let’s lean into the misunderstanding and have it take over the world!

https://www.discourse.org

#Forum #Software #OpenSource #Chat #Social #Media

Discourse is the place to build civilized communities

Discourse is modern forum software for your community. Use it as a mailing list, discussion forum, long-form chat room, and more!

Discourse - Civilized Discussion

@bitbear @malcircuit @dahukanna @codinghorror

While I agree with that I also think there is a lot of non trivial work/cost to run/admin a Discourse site (disclaimer: I admin one, so I’m speaking from experience).

@freeformz @malcircuit @dahukanna @codinghorror Indeed, we should have better shared hosting and admin options. Have you tried Communiteq?

https://www.communiteq.com/

@freeformz @bitbear @malcircuit @dahukanna @codinghorror

I have my first Discourse forum in beta atm. There definitely is a lot of work involved, especially self-hosting, but it has been a great learning experience and the Discourse community is amazingly helpful. The result is well worth the effort.

@freeformz @bitbear @malcircuit @dahukanna @codinghorror

I don't recall difficulty with administration of Discourse.

That said, it was a few years ago.

@grahamperrin it’s not difficult, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t consume a bunch of time. Especially if self hosting.
@bitbear @freeformz @malcircuit @dahukanna @codinghorror Never used Discord, but has account on several instance of Discourse on projects I like. It works pretty well, is simple & efficient :)
@malcircuit discord should be replaced by a combination of forums and matrix.

@tarajdactyl @malcircuit Hopefully by something that sucks less than Matrix. 😬

But, yeah, Discord is going to go to shit eventually.

@faithisleaping @malcircuit matrix is extremely rough around the edges, but i i like that is secure and it supports channels like discord.

there's a reason i still use discord 😅

@faithisleaping @malcircuit honestly I'd settle for a combination of forums and irc like we had back in the day but idt that'd fly either.
@tarajdactyl @malcircuit I mean there's a reason I'm still logged into IRC 24/7... 🙃
@faithisleaping @tarajdactyl @malcircuit me too. Irc is useful and doesn't require many resources to run.
@smxi @faithisleaping @tarajdactyl @malcircuit you two are invited to irc-nerds.net, i'm under same name there

@smxi @faithisleaping @tarajdactyl @malcircuit IRC can be confusing for a new user, what with registering nicks and persistence and all.

OTOH, some newer clients make that a lot easier. TheLounge, for instance.

@tarajdactyl @faithisleaping @malcircuit nothing to settle for. Irc isn't gone. Libera.chat oftc.net. Set up account on free and open libera. Set up nick. Set up and register channel. Or join existing.
@smxi @tarajdactyl @malcircuit Oh, IRC definitely sucks. It lacks a ton of super useful features like emojis, file upload, link embed, and the like. It's also severely lacking in moderation tools. Matrix, though, only barely solves a couple of those problems and comes with its own giant pile of pain.
@faithisleaping @tarajdactyl @malcircuit irc is for communicating in real time. Works as intended. You type. They type. No eye candy. Easy to run. Add irc bots for extra features. Like real time email except everyone on channel sees exchange. I have several channels. Libera is good. Oftc.net good. Not javascript based. Huge bonus. Very efficient to operate. When freenode tried to monetize entire userbase split to new libera overnight. Program irc bots for more features.

@smxi @faithisleaping @tarajdactyl @malcircuit LOL are you for real? something like file uploads (at least images!) should be a BASIC feature, not something extra.

sorry my friend, but this isn't gonna fly

@shimei @faithisleaping @tarajdactyl @malcircuit you're clearly looking for a different service. Irc isn't some new proposal. It's a clean simple tool, an open clean simple protocol. You're confusing its core features of efficiency and simplicity with some problem or failing. Clearly you are not looking for text based realtime communication and prefer complex inefficient generally corporate run options. Thats fine. Tools can't satisfy everyone.

@smxi "something something these stinky normies keep using Evil Software, why is FOSS still associated with bigotry and inaccessibility?" - every single one of you FOSS crusaders ever

also, lol if asking for a feature of SENDING AN IMAGE is too much to expect, then lol lmao get fucked

@smxi kids don't want text-only chat; they want file transfer and animated gifs, emoticons and video hosting

and that's fine too *shrug*

@faithisleaping @tarajdactyl @malcircuit irc is a protocol. It has implementations. Libera handles spam well. I see basically none and few who slip through are nuked almost instantly. It's an open protocol like http or ftp or smtp or pop3. Saying irc sucks is like saying email sucks because you don't like aols implementation of the email protocols. Irc well designed. Servers good. Tools good. Stable.
@smxi why are you talking in short statements? It doesn't help getting your point across. What is your point anyway?
You've basically just been putting down any mention of new tech that isn't IRC. IRC *was* good. Today people have higher expectations for real time chat like
- typing indicators
- embedded images
- link previews
- emojis
- read/delivery receipts
- gifs/stickers
- roles
And more.
Discord is a widely used platform that integrates a lot of functionality that people want.
(1/2)
@smxi
@malcircuit
there's not really an alternative to it. A combo of matrix and forums gets close but doesn't have the polish and convenience of discord. The general population is almost always going to choose convenience. Having to make multiple accounts on multiple platforms is not convenient, thats what's great about the fediverse. Maybe there will be some federated real time chat/forum software to take on discord but for now I dont know of anything better than matrix and discourse.
(2/2)
@faithisleaping @malcircuit @tarajdactyl @smxi I'd kind of argue that's a benefit more so than a downside.

Link embed is a good way to test which participants in the chat are using vulnerable media codec libraries. (I hate how rotten that library ecosystem is.)

File upload wastes space on the server uselessly and is better served by either magic-wormhole, IPFS links or magnet links.

I'm not going to contradict the bit about moderation though. I entirely agree that it could *definitely* use some standardization and improvement for that.
@faithisleaping That’s quite client dependent. Link embed is something the client has to handle, since it’s only a presentation thing. The vast majority of the used IRC clients support Unicode, which supports emojis. Your client just needs to have an emoji picker or you need a separate emoji picker like rofimoji, it’s only text after all.

@basxto Yes and discord has all those things built-in, ensuring no one feels left out when the emoji are being thrown around. Discord also has emoji which aren't part of Unicode and allows servers (I still hate that naming) to add their own and that's not something IRC+Unicode can do.

It also has an interface and login system that people understand. Sure, it uses all of Web 2.0 and you can't write your own client, etc. but, if you're trying to build an accessible community, "Sign in with discord, here's a link to our server" is something people understand. Trying to walk new users through setting up an IRC client and authenticating so they can actually talk (basically required if you don't want a flood of bots) isn't trivial.

User experience matters. Just because someone CAN do X doesn't mean it's a good choice of X is a giant PITA.

And then there's moderation... Most IRC servers fight against spam bots but that's about it. Malicious users are a real problem. There are blocks and things but they're archaic, badly documented, and easily avoided. Discord's combination of moderation tools and passionate account protections are actually quite effective. You can create additional accounts to try and run around moderation but Discord frowns on that and will start using heavier tools like IP bans etc. if they find you doing so.

@tarajdactyl @faithisleaping @malcircuit Maybe it has something to do with my age but IRC is *so* much easier to use than these modern GUI real-time chat web hacks.
@faithisleaping @tarajdactyl @malcircuit Honestly not sure if discord will go to shit. Look at twitter. Look at reddit and instagram. They're all terrible, not even just because of the amount of assholes in it but actively because they're managed by assholes. They are entirely anti-consumer and yet? People use them because everyone else uses them, hell, I use them. Social medias are nearly unrivaled. Discord even has the benefit to have nice branding. Almost universally hated, yes, but "nice".
@MothWaves Discord is owned by venture capital. Venture capital will eventually come home for the profits, and anything good about the platform will be sacrificed for the profits if it needs to be.
@magitweeter I feel like we're already at that stage honestly.
@magitweeter @MothWaves It's weird, because Discord is just Slack in another Universe that collided with this one somehow and none of the universe-collision standard weirdness has happened yet.

Anyway, Slack got bought by Salesforce and then... enshittification wasn't even the right word. They have like a magic wand that's the opposite of the Midas touch. That, but for shit. Instashittification? Is this a word?

#enshittification #instashittification
Communal Bonfires

Online community platforms are assembly-kits for large, communal bonfires, designed to draw people towards the light and into the warm to...

Open Indie

@tarajdactyl @malcircuit More and more I am thinking about it, more I see that https://xkcd.com/1782/ has the right side of it.

#XKCD #IRC #Chat

Team Chat

xkcd

@mcepl @tarajdactyl @malcircuit I've kept thinking that the appeal of Discord is that it combines several different forms of online communication: transient chat, persistent message boards, voice chat, shared links.

This goes against the (in)famous Unix principle that a tool should do one specific thing well.

So for TTRPGs, I've thought of recommending we use Mumble for voice chat, and a separate VTT, and an email list, and a wiki... and then I imagine everyone's eyes rolling.

@tarajdactyl @malcircuit forums? sure

but id rather eat steel nails for the rest of my life than use matrix for anything other than dms (and even that is riddled with encryption errors)

@halva
I've played a bit with Zulip, which seems to be a bit of both, it's an interesting approach.
@tarajdactyl @malcircuit
@halva @tarajdactyl @malcircuit Yeah. If you logout, you can't receive encrypted messages. That issue has been open for years and fix is coming someday. Yet I haven't seen it working yet.
#matrix #encryption #dehydrated #dehydration
Akkoma

@malcircuit @lisamelton Indeed. It’s already an un-Googleable walled garden, and it’s only going to get worse.
@malcircuit cough IRC is still kicking
@tezoatlipoca As someone who has been using IRC since 1996... IRC kinda sucks.
@Ten @tezoatlipoca I feel like someone just needs to make a modern IRC client that feels like slack or discord and it could suck a lot less.
@Ash_Crow @Ten @tezoatlipoca basically, but local instead of web-based (could self host it tho I guess)

@Ten I said it was kicking, I didn't say how much.

Depending on what network + channel, some channels are still quite active. others.. less so.

@malcircuit @lisamelton I am part of a few discords, but don’t post that often. For me I treat discord as entirely ephemeral, because searching and finding anything isn’t easy. But maybe that’s just me.

@malcircuit oh I can not get behind this more… as a thing for gaming, yeah it’s fine.

As a community gathering place for every group ever… nope. Gimme a forum please.

@malcircuit Solid agree. As someone who runs a creative & indie projects forum we're super happy to provide subforums within our forum space to projects that want it and provide moderation, setup, themes if needed, etc. And I'm always happy to advise on setting up new forums if people need that.

I feel like the "Discord will blow up" discussion happens every few months, but I don't think we've seen a single project or user even test the waters setting up a space or joining us as a result.