Mastodawn

Periodic reminder that "don't speak ill of the dead" is for, like, not mentioning at her funeral that Aunt Sally was a drunk and a lousy cook. It's not for suppressing public discussion of public figures and their complicated legacies.

Or, put another way, the obligation to "speak truth to power" is way more important than the obligation "not to speak ill of the dead". One is about justice and the other is about politeness. To be frank, FUCK politeness.

FoolishOwl Sep 29, 2023

@adrienne I suspect that it's always meant protecting abusers. Patriarchs are literal, after all. Think of all those jokes about "merry widows".

just adrienne Sep 29, 2023

@foolishowl i think there's a few things going on, bc frankly there are very few social norms that arise for only one "reason". As i just said elsewhere: https://social.treehouse.systems/@adrienne/111149736282033254

just adrienne (@[email protected])

@[email protected] Yeah, you should never feel compelled to shut up about abuse! I do think there are reasons not to confront people who are deep in a grief process with GRATUITOUS discussion of their relative's shitheadedness, but there's a difference between "don't be deliberately cruel" and "keep quiet".

Treehouse Mastodon

David Fetter Sep 30, 2023

@foolishowl I way more than suspect it. Think about the people who rush to shush you with this and whom they're always protecting. You never hear this about a Black child that a cop murdered in cold blood, for example.

Graham Sutherland / Polynomial Sep 29, 2023

@adrienne coincidentally, I just posted a similar PSA. well timed!

Officially Tara 🕷️

🌹Sep 29, 2023

@adrienne fuck politeness indeed.

i don't want it to applied to relatives either. too often "don't speak ill of the dead" is used to conceal abuse.

aunt Sally was a drunk who beat her kids and i spit on her grave.

(i don't actually have an aunt Sally)

just adrienne Sep 29, 2023

@tarajdactyl Yeah, you should never feel compelled to shut up about abuse! I do think there are reasons not to confront people who are deep in a grief process with GRATUITOUS discussion of their relative's shitheadedness, but there's a difference between "don't be deliberately cruel" and "keep quiet".

James Endicott Sep 29, 2023

The only reason to not speak ill of the dead is because it takes time away from speaking ill of the living who can create new harms. Reagan's rotting carcass can't hurt anyone else but his acolytes still are.

Frances Larina Sep 29, 2023

Yeah, I think once someone puts themself in a position of power over others, all bets are off.

kira :3 Sep 29, 2023

@adrienne discourse sanitation tactic. it's just there to direct the conversation away from things that really ought to be talked about

David Fetter Sep 30, 2023

@chrisisgr8 discourse sanitation tactic is not only the name of my next band. It's also a phrase I'll actually be using. Thanks!

Claus Sep 29, 2023

@adrienne I don’t know what prompted this but scrolling by this on trending after watching #themorningshow couldn’t be more perfect. Highly recommend.

Roy Brander🍁Sep 29, 2023

Diane Feinstein can be seen depicted in the Adam Driver movie "The (torture) Report" as nearly the only Senator really concerned about running down the perps of torture and holding them to account.

That's what I'll say today. I'll probably find a few other nice things to say tomorrow and the next day.

On Day 4, I can start with those aspects that were not so hot.

It's not about letting them off; just being classy for 72 hours.

David Fetter Sep 30, 2023

@RoyBrander Maybe don't stan for the ruling class at all. 72 hours is 72 hours too long to do that.

Sam Adeleine Sep 29, 2023

@adrienne I interpret it as you shouldn't speak ill of the dead to their loved ones. e.g. I don't care how much you hate Donald, you don't get to be mean to Barron when he dies. And hopefully Barron knows better than to read the news while he is grieving.

@adrienne I feel like "don't speak ill of the dead at their own funeral" is a better way to say it. I don't even 100% agree with that, but I can understand maybe avoiding airing grievances at an event meant to honor them.

Won't stop me from dancing on certain people's graves when they do finally kick the bucket, though.

just adrienne Sep 30, 2023

@emberquill Really it's not just at the funeral, per se: it's "don't be a shithead to innocent people who are grieving". You can tell the truth about how horrible someone was without being gratuitously cruel to people who loved them. But again, this doesn't apply at all to public figures whose public actions affect zillions of people! Their loved ones aren't reading social media (or if they are, they sure as hell shouldn't be, and i'm not prepared to make that anyone else's responsibility.)

Samhain Night Sep 30, 2023

@adrienne I thought it came from an old superstition that speaking ill of the dead would make them haunt you. Either way though, it’s bullshit.

Sabella Sep 30, 2023

Poldy Bloom Sep 30, 2023

Saw Sean Locke (RIP). "Not proud of myself. I had a few drinks when Thatcher died. Nothing too mental. The neighbours only called the police twice."

Evie Sep 30, 2023

@adrienne honestly fuck the first example too. Don't put people on a pedestal because they're no longer here. Celebrate their flaws and the fact they're human if it's warranted and acknowledge the damage they did in life if it's severe enough to be notable.

John Burwell aka deet Sep 30, 2023

@adrienne of course, for best results, speak truth to power while the power is still alive. Who cares who’s dead

just adrienne Sep 30, 2023

@jmbwell I agree in part, but allowing encomia to crystallize into hagiography is very dangerous for the living, too!