Mastodawn

Meredith Whittaker Sep 2, 2023

Shortcut to their full statement here: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23933180/apple-letter-to-heat-initiative.pdf

Michael Gemar Sep 2, 2023

@Mer__edith @danhon It’s a terrible problem, and I respect Apple for its consistent message that privacy isn’t something that can be turned off for specific issues.

Alexander The 1st Sep 2, 2023

@michaelgemar @Mer__edith @danhon I mean, they did *try* to make it, but after reading the article, I suspect they thought about it, and then realized that their Genius Bars could probably be better suited for doing this, if they wanted to do something like this...which they realized they don't want to, because it would set precedent for doing more of it for other types of content.

Avoid the Hack!

Sep 2, 2023

@Mer__edith The idea of scanning literally every single photo because it “*could* be CSAM” is so… ick.

Next, are we going to mandate ID verification for social media— wait don’t answer that. 👀

Orion Edwards Sep 2, 2023

@Mer__edith apple can’t/wont do it *without sacrificing user privacy*, or, as they say, start on a slippery slope towards invasive scanning for whatever the politician of the day deems undesirable.

Sadly, I expect other companies will be less willing to stand up for that principle.

@borland @Mer__edith You believe that there's a noble reason for that?

They expect to lose vast amounts of users if they compromise on privacy, which has always been at the core of the brand messages. That's it.

@bbak @borland @Mer__edith Rubbish. Most of Apple’s customers don’t care about privacy. If Apple did an about face it would have no impact on their sales.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/07/apple-is-turning-privacy-into-a-business-advantage.html

@acute_distress @borland @Mer__edith So you are saying Apple doesn't understand it's users?

Orion Edwards Sep 3, 2023

@bbak @acute_distress @Mer__edith I agree with Henry here. *Some* of Apple’s customers care deeply about privacy and security, and they would be very upset if Apple backslides on those. But iPhones are very much mainstream, your average iPhone-owning soccer mom would still keep buying them.

Orion Edwards Sep 3, 2023

@bbak @acute_distress @Mer__edith and TBH so would I. The only alternative mobile OS is Android, where the privacy/security/ad-tracking bar is *so low* that even if Apple were much much worse at privacy, they’d still be the better option.
We should count ourselves lucky that Tim Cook believes in this particular principle

@borland @acute_distress @Mer__edith Because Apple invested heavily in Branding about: trust us, your data is safe in iWhatever.

Världens bästa Kille™Sep 3, 2023

@bbak @borland @Mer__edith @acute_distress Brands aren’t about what the users think or care about.

@thelovebing @borland @Mer__edith @acute_distress Oh, really? How do you explain the loyalty and premium Apple Users pay since decades?

Världens bästa Kille™Sep 3, 2023

@borland @bbak @acute_distress @Mer__edith

It works the other way around. You don’t build a brand by adapting to (would be) users.

Trust me. I’ve done this for a living going on 25 years.

Världens bästa Kille™Sep 3, 2023

@bbak @acute_distress @Mer__edith @borland Apple by the way is The Prime Example of this. Original Mac with graphic interface, iPod, eMac, Newton, iPhone – all quirky, left field products. So that’s what we’ve come to expect from Apple.

They are really, really good at this. Think different.

@thelovebing @borland @acute_distress @Mer__edith Nobody said they did.

They just realized that there's the threshold in people's minds. And they communicated to set the standards and be way above the threshold (doesn't matter if they really were), so people felt safe by just owning that device.

Rather simple comms strategy and part of the positioning of the brand - I guess that it can be found in textbooks already.

@bbak @thelovebing @borland @Mer__edith Apple makes products they want and hope that other people want them too. They don’t build products by committee and they don’t do market research. Sometimes they are successful and sometimes they are not.

@bbak @thelovebing @borland @Mer__edith If you asked the market what they wanted e2e encryption would be far down the list because most people don’t understand it. Apple added e2e encryption because they believe it’s the right thing to do. They have a gay CEO so he is very aware of this.

@bbak @thelovebing @borland @Mer__edith You might think Apple is some evil corporation who only does things for money and you might be right about some things but encryption isn’t one of those.

Världens bästa Kille™Sep 4, 2023

@borland @Mer__edith @acute_distress @bbak Well … I am no Apple fan boy, but as a marketer (tho comms/brand is my main area) I admire them. As a corp not as much.

Regardless of the motivation for their actions (which we obviously know nothing about) they are very aware of the need for differentiation and brand salience. One can see the failed products as failed products – or as the result of a truly innovative conpany (culture). Or both.

Bruno Baketarić Sep 4, 2023

@acute_distress @thelovebing @borland @Mer__edith You think corporations doing things only for money are evil?

Interesting. Isn't making money the main reason for being in business?

Now this thread degenerates into opinions based on assumptions about ones intent. This leads to nowhere. Thank you, have a good time.

Världens bästa Kille™Sep 4, 2023

@Mer__edith @acute_distress @bbak @borland

Well as someone who runs a business (agency) I can say that no, I don’t do it for the money. Would make helluva lot more at som big agency.

I do it because it’s the only way I get to do good shit. Creative control, close relationship with clients. Stuff like that.

It seems, though, like it will pay off long run. We’re building a brand.

Världens bästa Kille™Sep 4, 2023

@Mer__edith @bbak @acute_distress @borland “do good stuff” isn’t about saving the world btw, even though there is an argument to be made what we do could contribute to a better one.

It’s about getting to write better texts, do better design, stronger concepts. Less committee.

Ian Hecht 🇨🇦Sep 2, 2023

@Mer__edith It's interesting that they made both the argument that any hole could be exploited by a bad actor, and also that governments wouldn't be satisfied using it only for rooting out csam. It's nice to see a company think through the implications before haring off willy-nilly.

utzer [Friendica]Sep 2, 2023

@timpritlove fyi

jfml - Jonas Laugs Sep 2, 2023

@Mer__edith Unfortuneltely, neither the EU nor any other government who wants to build spyware with the strawman of "protecting kids" will care or listen to any other good arguments ...

James Holden Sep 2, 2023

@Mer__edith It’s amazing how the politicians always hold these companies up as having the best engineers in the world, and then won’t listen to those very same engineers when they say it can’t be done.

Raven Onthill Sep 2, 2023

@Mer__edith Apple, to their credit, refuses to be big brother.

ashley Sep 3, 2023

@Mer__edith @joe_no_body anyone know what these on-device features are, tho?

HAIL THE ORB Sep 3, 2023

@rabcyr basically opt-in automated nudity detection https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212850

About Communication Safety on your child's Apple device

If your child receives or attempts to send photos or videos that might contain nudity, Communication Safety warns them, gives them options to stay safe, and provides helpful resources.

Apple Support

ashley Sep 3, 2023

@joe_no_body oh huh that’s kinda neat and not actually cringe

HAIL THE ORB Sep 3, 2023

@rabcyr yeah, it seems incredibly reasonable in its design. I like that it prompts the kid and doesn't just tattle on them to their parents or something

Dreaming of dad jazz.Sep 3, 2023

@Mer__edith I think this statement was them attempting to drive a stake in the argument. I suspect it won't kill it off but it really is a very bold statement from them and one likely to be paid attention to..

vorlon Sep 3, 2023

@Mer__edith https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip we've been having this same conversation with politicians over and over again for literally 30 years. This won't be the last time.

Clipper chip - Wikipedia

> An editorial in the Washington Post argued that "smartphone users must accept that they cannot be above the law if there is a valid search warrant", and after claiming to agree that backdoors would be undesirable, then suggested implementing a "golden key" backdoor which would unlock the data with a warrant [16]

Politicians trying to have drownable fishes, as always.

Compromise needed on smartphone encryption

Apple and Google’s new approach to encryption is too extreme.

The Washington Post

Matthew Walton Sep 3, 2023

@Mer__edith not a death knell. The UK government doesn't listen to experts.

Kevin Karhan

Sep 3, 2023

@Mer__edith #Apple is totally able and willing to integrate #Govware #backdoors, as they've evidenced woth the chinese #iCloud...

Needless to say that I think any "#CSAM Scanners" and generally #backdooring.tech are inherently wrong and to be rejected out of principle.

αxel simon ↙︎↙︎↙︎Sep 3, 2023

@Mer__edith the idea that because you built a thing you must be able to build it differently is odd, but seems even more prevalent when it comes to technology. I doubt the same folks would say to IKEA: "It is their responsibility to design a safe, privacy-forward environment that allows for the detection of known child sexual abuse images and videos. For as long as people can still share and store a known image of a child being raped in a Billy bookshelf we will demand that they do better.”