Mastodawn

Victor Chano Aug 6, 2023

Thomas A. Carlson

[Edited with corrections and citation below]

#Zoom just* changed their terms and conditions to include using anyone's video and audio for training #AI with no option for opting out. You too can help train #deepfake s!

Living with a disabled spouse, I used Zoom a lot to get through the ongoing global pandemic.

What alternatives are out there for remote teaching/meetings?

[* Evidently changed by the March 31, 2023 terms of service, but I didn't notice until yesterday.]
[Citation: Paragraph 10.4 of US terms of service here: https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/ ]
[Thank you for all the suggestions! I had to mute the conversation because of the overwhelming replies!]

Zoom Terms of Service | Zoom

Read: Terms of Service – Zoom

Zoom

N.A. Hintermann Aug 5, 2023

@MedievalMideast
I usually use BigBlueButton, since my university set up their own instance which runs pretty stable and has features like a whiteboard. A good alternative is Jitsi, although I don't have much experience using it.

Thomas A. Carlson Aug 5, 2023

@nahint
I used BigBlueButton first, but then I think my uni discontinued it in favor of licensing Zoom, but I'll check.

I've used Jitsi, arranged by others; I don't know anything about its terms & conditions.

Thanks for the ideas!

/madonius Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast @nahint There is a volunteer run instance of Jitsi from @freifunkMUC under https://meet.ffmuc.net
they only keep minimal logs iirc.

Jitsi Meet

Join a WebRTC video conference powered by the Jitsi Videobridge

N.A. Hintermann Aug 6, 2023

@madonius @MedievalMideast
The host of my Mastodon instance (@fairsocialnet) also runs a Jitsi instance: https://fairsocialnet.ch/services/jitsi/
They're currently also preparing a BigBlueButton instance (which will not be free of charge, though).

FairSocialNet · La vie privée numérique en Suisse Romande

FairSocialNet s'engage pour des services Internet éthiques, sans publicité, fonctionnant de manière transparente avec des logiciels libres exclusivement.

Stephan Matthiesen Aug 6, 2023

@nahint @MedievalMideast
Just to add to this, BigBlueButton is open source software so it is installed on various services and you don't have to go to the BBB servers.

In Germany Senfcall is quite popular, it's a BBB installation and you don't even need an account.

https://www.senfcall.de/en/

Senfcall – Add your mustard!

author_is_ShrikeTron🔠💉x7 Aug 5, 2023

@MedievalMideast My work uses Google Meet. Works well enough for most usage.

We only switch to Zoom sometimes because it's easier to share videos (for presentations).

João Tiago Rebelo Aug 5, 2023

@MedievalMideast @kcarruthers Jitsi Meet? https://meet.jit.si/ If you need certain features, you can pay like you would with Zoom and have an expanded experience with 8x8 (not needed in most use cases).

Jitsi Meet

Join a WebRTC video conference powered by the Jitsi Videobridge

Josh G.Aug 5, 2023

@MedievalMideast Jitsi

padeluun ⁂Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast @resieguen https://digitalcourage.de/digitale-selbstverteidigung/videokonferenz-ueberblick

Videokonferenzen im Überblick | Digitalcourage

Etwas besseres als Zoom finden wir überall. Zum Beispiel eine der freien und datenschutzfreundlichen Alternativen!

Millicent Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast Cisco webex, but I’m not certain if there is a free version

Kyle Anderson Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast Thanks for the heads up!

Looks like the change occurred at the start of April.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230401082858/https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/

Relevant section is 10.4, which lumps in machine learning training with the rest of the broad license to use customer content for the purposes of "product and service development."

Zoom Terms of Service | Zoom

Read: Terms of Service – Zoom

Zoom

internet_seer Aug 6, 2023

Thank you for the #zoom source link @kandersonus. And with “create derivative works” right in the middle it is very clear what the limits of their terms are (none). @MedievalMideast

Megan Lynch (she/her)Aug 6, 2023

@kandersonus I wish I'd found out about it earlier...my acct with them just auto-renewed.

Graylynn Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast Do you happen to have a link to something which outlines this? I'd love to share I just can't without some kind of source, and reading the TOS on Zoom, my eyes just keep glazing over (I can't focus on that dry garbage, ugh)

Jer Clarke Aug 6, 2023

@Nesi @MedievalMideast Heres an actual link about the changes. IMO this does not prove what OP is claiming. There’s nothing about actual call video or audio in here. Sounds more like the call metadata.

Doesn’t Zoom have an end-to-end encryption option? That would make this kind of spying impossible 🤷🏻‍♀️

https://stackdiary.com/zoom-terms-now-allow-training-ai-on-user-content-with-no-opt-out/

Zoom's updated Terms of Service permit training AI on user content without Opt-Out

Zoom Video Communications, Inc. recently updated its Terms of Service to encompass what some critics are calling a significant invasion of user privacy.

Stack Diary

DaSkinny ⚜️Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast

How will this apply to court cases that don't allow recording?

Tam Aug 6, 2023

@DaSkinny1 @MedievalMideast or therapists who talk with their clients?

Mycotropic Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast time to point the camera at #Teletubbies and let my academic Zoom account train me some AI!

toxtethogrady Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast I could say Teams, but they're a Microsoft product. I haven't heard of other platforms for videoconferencing, but I'll keep an eye open...

WesMason Aug 6, 2023

@toxtethogrady
If you have used and liked Zoom, by default Teams will seem weird and posessed. I believe the reverse is also true.
@MedievalMideast

toxtethogrady Aug 7, 2023

@TDP4 @MedievalMideast I'm currently using both. While I like the ability to insert my own background and effects on Zoom, Teams seems like it's easier to connect with...

Xeno Danger Evil Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast
Jitsi meet is open source and works on my android phone

shared public horse .not bitey Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast we used bluejeans a bit at the w orkplace before the plague. A right faff to admin, if I recall rightly

Maybe nextcloud talk… oh wait, they're normalising deepfake chatbot shit as well. fml. https://nextcloud.com/blog/nextcloud-ethical-ai-rating/

Nextcloud Ethical AI Rating - Nextcloud

Nextcloud Ethical AI Rating is designed to give a quick insight into the ethical implications of a particular integration of AI in Nextcloud.

Nextcloud

Ω 🌍 Gus Posey Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast That's my last Zoom meeting, then.

Mazzo Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/ or http://bigbluebutton.org/
are great 👌

Jitsi Meet | Jitsi Meet

State-of-the-art video conferencing you can self-host.

Zack Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast I built a virtual cafe platform that was once described as “zoom meets MySpace” cafeforteams.com

icosalice Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast BigBlueButton comes to mind!

Laux Myth (aka Martin)Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast
I have a weekly chat on Jitsi. Open source. A few less features but mostly the same.

Doug Bostrom Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast

If one could opt to pay and train to perform avatar duties akin to Ian Banks' plot conceits so as to "attend" meetings and get an executive summary post facto: boon!

But no. Imaginations are too impoverished despite Banks' gift.

Velocipede Rider Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast I would use whereby because I know a couple of people who work there. Ex colleagues of mine and both really good people. This gives me faith in the company.

Thierna Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast for private video calls I use signal

You can get a desktop app
And you can call group chats with video

@MedievalMideast Q for #FOSS community - What alternatives to Zoom are out there for remote teaching/meetings?@lightweight do you have an answer?

🇳🇿Aug 6, 2023

@Kay @MedievalMideast we've been offering pro-bono access to BigBlueButton (which is Zoom's equal) since the start of Covid... No limits on meeting duration, supports up to a couple hundred concurrent users, has breakout rooms, recording, and many other features. Ours is hosted here in Aotearoa, thanks to generous sponsorship from CatalystCloud.nz. Do you want access? If so, DM me your email for an invite. I can't understand why *anyone* would use Zoom instead of BBB.

@lightweight Thanks Dave 😊

Tam Aug 6, 2023

@lightweight @Kay @MedievalMideast I will have to let my lovely therapist know. I think she will be horrified to learn private patient conversations are being used to train AI

Virginie Aug 6, 2023

@lightweight @Kay @MedievalMideast my local state funded night school (in Berlin, Germany) does remote classes using BBB and while there are less features than zoom I do find it pretty fitting and it works well. I have been using it for the last 3 years and I still don’t hate it ;) (not sure about a11y features though)

WestphalDenn Aug 6, 2023

@Maker @lightweight @Kay @MedievalMideast Works fine with screen readers. However opening the shared notes will render the browser window totally unusable with scree readers.

Felicity Martin Aug 6, 2023

@Kay @lightweight @MedievalMideast
Thanks for the heads up everyone, I’m now looking at BigBlueButton for the membership organisation where I am the video conferencing coordinator. I reckon we’ll want to ditch Zoom.

alto Aug 6, 2023

@Kay @MedievalMideast @lightweight not sure if it's equivalent to zoom, but have you looked at Jitsi?

🇳🇿Aug 6, 2023

@alto @Kay @MedievalMideast Jitsi is great both it and BigBlueButton are open source. BBB's designed for remote university lectures and other large group use cases, but it's also good for one on one and small groups. It's quite a lot harder to run, but if you've got one (I run 3 instances), it's better in many ways.

@MedievalMideast Definitely https://meet.jit.si / #JitsiMeet since it just works, is #FLOSS, runs on every #HTLM5 #WebBrowser AND you can even #SelfHost it if you want 100% control of your data.

https://jitsi.org/jitsi-meet/

Something that almost all the other solutions won't offer you!

Jitsi Meet

Join a WebRTC video conference powered by the Jitsi Videobridge

Pär Björklund Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast Skype works well for one-to-one audio/video/screensharing.
There's a free consumer version of Microsoft teams, haven't tried it but the business version works well for meetings.

3d_blobcat_stretch

@MedievalMideast jitsi?

charlag Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast Jitsi, Signal, Element, Wire

Vincent Hayes🌹

@MedievalMideast I suppose there's Telegram if you want user simplicity, but it typically requires a phone number to sign up.

Jitsi and Signal are good options to consider though

halva Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast element call (not element!) is dead simple and feels nice to use https://call.element.io/

Element Call

You're invited to join a call on Element Call

Arindam Basu Aug 6, 2023

Try Jitsi Meet (meet jit.si), free, open source, not connected to a big tech firm. Or, google meet (meet.google.com), or matrix video chat, or bigbluebutton. All of these are better solutions than Zoom IMHO.

Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄

@MedievalMideast Jitsi!

It's open source and doesn't require accounts! Make up a meeting name, boom, you are DONE.

Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄

@MedievalMideast https://meet.jit.si IIRC

Jitsi Meet

Join a WebRTC video conference powered by the Jitsi Videobridge

Frost, wolf of winter 🐺🎄

@MedievalMideast (it is also selfhostable if you want more control and have the knowledge/spoons for setting it up, but you don't have to! But like selfhosting would be /great/ for organizational use rather than private meetings.)

Steven Willems Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast @JorisMeys I use https://whereby.com/ very simple to use

Secure, customizable & reliable WebRTC Video Calls| Whereby

Host quick instant meetings or embed video calls into your platform with Whereby’s video conferencing API and SDK.

Ben the Bones Kinner Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast Is that even legal, considering that Zoom is used by doctors for tele appointments???

Alberto Cottica Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast do you have a link for that? My org uses Zoom, and this is ground for me asking to not do that anymore.

Alberto Cottica Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast found it: https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/, section 10.2, effective as of July 27th.

Zoom Terms of Service | Zoom

Read: Terms of Service – Zoom

Zoom

oRx_Qx_Spideradio Aug 6, 2023

@@MedievalMideast There is BigBlueButton or Jitsi meet hosted on any places. Nevertheless those are not alternatives but major tools superior to what you mention.

Leszek Karlik Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast

I use jitsi.meet quite a lot, it works well and had e2e encryption way before Zoom.

John Terry Aug 6, 2023

@MedievalMideast Not good - use Zoom for lots of highly confidential meetings.

One local authority I used to work with used BlueJeans from Verizon, about which I know nothing other than it exists.

Jitsi sounds good too.