Helen CzerskiThe evidence that cars don’t work as primary mass transport in cities is everywhere: traffic jams, air pollution, accident rates, the shocking fraction of city space taken up by parking spaces, safety barriers/bollards etc. This 100 year experiment should be declared over, and we should put proper effort into the systems that HAVE been shown to work and scale: walking, cycling, e-cargo bikes, cheap/accessible/reliable public transport. This “argument” about LTNs is just lazy delay. #LTN #cities
David Brennan@helenczerski Absolutely. It's all about using the right tool for the right job. We've spent far too much time changing the environment to fit the tool.
GreenerFutures@magnatom but the tool keeps growing too. A 2oz ball pein hammer is now a 2lb sledgehammer.
@GreenerFutures Very true. If they keep growing we'd need to adjust the environment further. ☹️
Elizaaaarghhhh 
@helenczerski
The beeching cuts and the ripping up of tram lines in the 60s has a lot to answer for
The beeching cuts and the ripping up of tram lines in the 60s has a lot to answer for
kim_harding ✅@eliza @helenczerski So-called "car dependency" didn't happen by accident, it is the result of policy
Dave Mc@eliza @helenczerski Beeching's vision was that every household would have access to a car. Now many households have multiple cars. People that work in towns now live in the middle of nowhere. Cars have become so cheap, people don't think about driving a mile. I don't think the planners from 70 years ago envisaged these changes.
Ticktok@guigsy @eliza @helenczerski they all thought we'd have flying cars by now so the traffic could go vertical
James Evans@helenczerski In Dulwich, south London, there’s been a lot of anger about the LTNs, but from my perspective (as someone who doesn’t own a car) they’ve made the roads quieter, safer, cleaner and nicer to use.
The initial designs were a bit restrictive, but changes to allow emergency access seem to have fixed those concerns. Overall, LTNs seem to deliver, and the only “argument” should be about how to extend their impact and ensure car-free travel is safe, cheap, and timely.
John P@Myryama @helenczerski In September, my son starts secondary school and will only be able to cycle the 1½ miles to get there as most roads between have been made an LTN.
There are now proposals to remove bollards and replace with a camera to allow through ambulances. Even this would make us think twice, especially if they allow taxis through as suggested. Making roads safe enough for an 11yo is great thing; it would be a huge shame to lose it.
@jpnp @helenczerski They did this in Dulwich Village with no obvious negative impact (ambulances, not taxis - that would be awful). The roads are no busier with the wider openings, but I’d be dead against allowing taxis to resume rat-running, which would definitely happen if they were allowed through these restricted junctions.
@Myryama @helenczerski Yes, I have no problem with emergency vehicle access, but once the opening is there, others will be (already are) lobbying heavily to use it.
Taxis have recently been allowed through nearby LTN bus gates - as they are 'a valuable public transport option'. I fear we'll end up with a sort-of low-ish traffic neighbourhood.
@jpnp @helenczerski That’s appalling. The argument for access for emergency vehicles is a bit thin (since re-routing typically makes little measurable difference unless the station is very close to the LTN), but there’s no way taxis need to drive through LTNs - that’s just nuts.
jahruhn@Myryama @helenczerski and accessible even for those from rural places like myself.
@jahruhn @helenczerski Accessibility hasn’t been reduced - all the roads remain reachable by car - but the changes ended the rat-running. That’s what makes the difference.
In other words, you can freely drive into an LTN (albeit via a different route) but you can’t drive through it.
George Laskowsky@helenczerski We ditched our family car when moving across continents. Though we didnt use it regularly, we still thought we needed one.
Mostly because we had better things to worry about, we didnt buy a new car. After a couple of years we realized we didnt need one. 7 years later, we are still car free and don't miss it. I don't even own a driver license anymore.
Public transportation, and the ocasional help of friends or service hiring is all we need.
Sibachian@glaskows @helenczerski i wish this was the case but at least in my country (in europe) a driving license is essentially mandatory for employment (but not law); even when your employment has nothing to do with cars or driving. and we have a great and affordable public transportation system so no one even needs a car. the government says it shouldn't be necessary, but they also don't want to fight it.
@Beiz @helenczerski I am currently living in Hamburg, Germany. I've seen job post asking for a driver license but I have never needed one, maybe is a perk of working in IT.
inaforest@helenczerski be nice to see some effort put into rural transport solutions, too, often forgotten or overlooked, we don't all live in a city OR work at desk-based activities..public transport in the burbs and beyond is a joke with a terrible punchline
Jon PENNYCOOK@inaforest @helenczerski Agreed - public transport and cycling infrastructure often don't reach suburbs or villages, particularly new housing developments, but there's no reason why we can't have both (LTNs AND sustainable transport for villages and new housing developments)
@jonpsp @helenczerski there's a way to go implementing improvements and infrastructure, in my experience.
@inaforest @helenczerski cars have enabled people to live in rural areas and the 'burbs. At least some of that behaviour has to be reversed over the next few decades.
@guigsy @helenczerski I'd be interested to hear how this would be achieved.
@inaforest @helenczerski In the US, policy changes that allow new denser housing would be a start. Better planning with cities that have amenities within a short distance, and convenient non-car ways of getting there. But above all this, there needs to be a culture reversal. This applies to the UK too... and I don't know how to encourage that.
@guigsy @helenczerski indeed, changes made to policy moving forward. Some of the families in my area have lived here for centuries..policy change won't alter this, or speaking personally, lived rural for near twenty years, made a life, making a living ..never ever going back to city life. Infrastructure needs to meet everyone's need, in a sustainable way, for where they live, right now. Hugely unworkable to relocate people's lives to address the issue.
@inaforest @helenczerski what work do those people do though? Do they still work the fields like their ancestors?
Commuting an hour to work, school runs that are many miles, long drives to the supermarket with a diversion to grab a drive thru coffee. Those things are the things that meant cars wrecked the system.
@guigsy @helenczerski I think some of your assumptions of rural life are dated and generalised. Come and pay a visit, It'd be my pleasure to show you around, anytime, genuine offer.
@inaforest @helenczerski just because someone's ancestors did something, it doesn't make sense that their descendants do the same.
There's plenty of rural life that's fine. And using the car is inevitable for doing a few miles to other rural destinations. But if you work a long way off in a distant town, you're part of the problem.
@guigsy @helenczerski I know that, and what I'm trying to say to you is that your assumption of rural living/commuting to work an hour away is not entirely true.
WoodswalkedIn much of the U.S. it is.
This is not saying that cars aren’t a problem, it is saying that trams are not a solution for most here. The complexity is deeper than in major cities. It is a deeply entrenched problem.
cc: @guigsy @helenczerski
@Woodswalked @guigsy @helenczerski Well, thank goodness we don't all live there, an often overlooked fact by usa-centric culture.
Yes! You are absolutely correct. Also, as a terribly rude and U.S.centric person, please lead the way with any solution that works anywhere. Every bit of progress is in the right direction.
cc: @guigsy @helenczerski
@guigsy @helenczerski and, fyi, our glorious leader, a spoof but the intent is unchanged....nothing is changing in the UK without a fight.
Liz Church@dailyturnout @inaforest @helenczerski yes. But they worked locally. They didn't commute an hour into the city to work.
@guigsy @dailyturnout @helenczerski worth mentioning, not everyone living rurally commutes for an hour! There's more to living than the city, my friend.
Magnus Ahltorp@inaforest @guigsy @dailyturnout @helenczerski But if you live rurally, and don’t commute into a city, why would you care about measures limiting car traffic in the cities?
@ahltorp @guigsy @dailyturnout @helenczerski why would I not, for heavens sake, the planet isn't just me
@inaforest @guigsy @dailyturnout @helenczerski Yes, that’s sort of the point of the original post. We need to limit car traffic, especially in the cities. If people don’t do it by themselves, they have to be nudged or forced.
cmeier@inaforest @helenczerski A friend of mine points to Norway where he says the rural garbage trucks also provide public transport.
LisPi@inaforest @helenczerski Part of the reason for that is that #CarDependent suburbs shouldn't exist at all.
#StreetCar / #Tram suburbs were a thing and they were far more reasonable.
@lispi314 @helenczerski well, we can, or you can, rather, say shouldn't forever but there they are, existing.
@inaforest @helenczerski Yes, and I would favor policies that position them for abandonment or demolition & return to farmland (which is what a lot of them were before becoming wastes of space).
@lispi314 @helenczerski I'm intrigued where the people go once they force-abandon their homes and lives?
@inaforest @helenczerski Public housing from mass redevelopment & #densification projects that are decades overdue, among others.
There's a *lot* of wasted space in cities in both USA & Canada (Europe has very different causes & mechanisms involved in its housing crises than just astonishingly bad land-use).
Just look at how much of the cities are either zoned for single-family homes or #parking (i.e. complete and utter waste of urban space).
@lispi314 @helenczerski maybe it's this kind of urban I don't understand, as I'm in the UK. Your notion of moving people and facilities around as if its a video game play set sounds awful.
@inaforest @helenczerski Yeah, I think the UK has a very different organization of space, urban and otherwise, (while it's not exactly in the EU anymore, it still has more in common with it than America) that probably makes what I'm saying not make much sense at all.
Generally, I'd say that NotJustBikes makes a good job of showing the problem as it is in North America.
As for the moving people around, it's an impersonal way of saying, but that's basically what policymaking does.
@inaforest @helenczerski At the moment suburbs are prioritized as a form of ponzi scheme coupled with rampant profiteering by rental companies (there's more that goes into it, obviously, but those are the ones with actual ability to influence policy meaningfully).
Lots of homes can remain vacant for a while too, as artificial scarcity is good for market manipulation (#Pluralistic / Cory Doctorow has written a bit on those more complicated corporation x policy interaction bits & housing).
mnemonicoverload@inaforest
This comes off as a bit of a weird deflection considering the original post was specifically about cities, nevertheless if we must ...
If you're talking about truely rural areas (farmhouses, cabin in the woods) then public transit has never and likely can never be applicable. If you mean rural towns, yes many used to have access by rail and can again. The only reason they don't is because of the false narrative that passenger trains (and public transit in general) must break even or make a profit as opposed to being run at a loss as a public service.
As for suburbs, yes but with the caveat that transit oriented suburbs (both legacy trolly suburbs and modern transit oriented suburbs) were / are designed quite differently from car dependent suburbs. Retrofitting existing car suburbs is actually a pretty big lift. Modern car dependent exurbs, OTOH, are likely a complete impossibility for service by transit. Their existence is wholly predicated and dependent on the use of personal private vehicles.
@mnemonicoverload @helenczerski thank s nemonic I'll read this later
@mnemonicoverload firstly, we mustn't. Secondly, I'm sorry I didn't respond to the op in just the way you would prefer, I don't know what you'll do going forward.
Xermin Dori@helenczerski For those who don’t know what LTN is (like myself): “Low Traffic Neighbourhood (LTN) is a plan implemented to reduce through motorised traffic in residential areas through filtered permeability and traffic calming”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Traffic_Neighbourhood
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Traffic_Neighbourhood
dasgrueneblatt@xermindor @helenczerski thanks! I had to look it up myself, and then I saw your reply 👍 learned something new today, and it might be a good # to follow!
Lee 🌏@helenczerski
Did you listen to the recent War On Cars Podcast on Traffication? It's pretty shocking the impact that cars have on wildlife too, and it gets so little attention from environmental organisations.
Did you listen to the recent War On Cars Podcast on Traffication? It's pretty shocking the impact that cars have on wildlife too, and it gets so little attention from environmental organisations.
Barry Rowlingson@helenczerski Elon: AI-controlled electric robo-taxi cars will fix all this. [Narrator: the AI-controlled electric robo-taxi cars did not fix any of this]
David S (inactive)
CyclesBecauseSummerIsComing😀@helenczerski what should happen for mr. Sunak to have an half hour chat with @notjustbikes ? That should help him alleviate these fears fat more quickly than lengthy ( and costly) research.
@helenczerski I suspect part of the problem is that the #Conservatives are chasing the votes of people easily swayed by conspiracy theories, as well as those people who will accept no reduction to their convenience. The former group are easily motivated by yellow posters telling them that there's a #WEF plot to keep people from travelling more than 15 mins in any direction, the latter want to drive through residential areas to get to the shops. Neither care about pollution/noise/climate change.