myrmepropagandist

I try to be a good person but it's easy to forget that not putting caps in multi-word hash tags makes them terrible for screen readers.

It's important like putting the captions on your images.

*however*

It would be helpful if the web app of mastodon could please stop suggesting I make bad choices? #mastodon #mastodonSuggestions

(by the way what do screen readers do with *things in stars* ? seems like it should speak them more slowly as if in bold...)

Jul 1, 2023 at 6:36pmWeb
Show threadPeter Kisner ≈Jul 1, 2023

@futurebird
Hard agree.

Also though: always a little mental discomfort when starting a hashtag where the first word is a single letter or abbreviation.

Show threadmyrmepropagandistJul 1, 2023

@PTR_K

TBH if it weren't for the screen readers I would rather leave many things lowercase and smushed just for unimportant looks reasons. But ever since I found out that most readers can parse the caps I've been trying to switch.

Show threadTim W RESISTSJul 1, 2023

@futurebird FWIW there are several feature requests out around this, also, your server admins can (if they want to invest a LOT of time, huge kudos to @josh who does it here on #UnionPlace ) manually curate the trending hashtags to be appropriately placed.

So far I haven't seen much traction on the feature requests around this, sadly. 😞

Show threadCaptain IMAXJul 1, 2023
@futurebird I think once someone on the server makes a hashtag without the capital letters it gets set in the suggestion whenever you try to use it again & if you make a new hashtag with capital letters that’s what’ll get suggested; you can’t changed already made hashtags it just for new hashtags for the server 
Show threadmyrmepropagandistJul 1, 2023

@sidd_harth0_5h4h

Hash tags should have a reporting and editing system built around them. To report/edit "bad" tags (I have not seen many here, but I did on twitter and you want to be ready for tag abuse)

But also some way curate them for people who choose to subscribe.

If you make enough posts under a tag that get boosted then you can flag posts that are spamming that tag. Something like that.

Show threadSteve DavidianJul 1, 2023
@futurebird @sidd_harth0_5h4h We have a way to flag and filter those, no? I haven't done it much as yet, but I'd like to see something like you're talking about. I'd have no problem putting them into my filters.
Show threadCarolannieJul 1, 2023
@futurebird It's interesting that when I am the only one using the hashtags I get a prompt with the correct capitalization, but if many people use a given hashtag, I always get the incorrect prompt. Sometimes I just write stuff in Notepad and copy/paste it, depending on topics
Show threadPJ "Vote Green" CoffeyJul 2, 2023

@carolannie

Ooh that's interesting I use Tusky and I've trained it to do proper CamelCase. But yes the prompts are frequently bad.

@futurebird

Show threadLydia Conwell Jul 1, 2023

@futurebird Mastodon taking away the camel case fucking annoying.

They should add the camel case when people don't use it.

But the techie people go Boo Hoo we can't do that! Stop asking the impossible!

Show thread🔴 I don't know where we should go.. 🟡Jul 1, 2023

@lydiaconwell @futurebird Yea.. this is where an algorithm or whatever would do well.

On one hand, it could detect without needing others to help it, that camelcase says CamelCase, but then if it's not quite so simple, look how a lot of others using that set of words are doing capitalisation so then, hey, okay let's suggest CamelCase.

Show threadLydia Conwell Jul 1, 2023

@jase @futurebird Apparently it's harder than it sounds. But surely there can be some sort of system that recognises existing words then separates them with capitals.

As long as you can override it like you can currently by typing space after the hashtag.

Or maybe it should be designed to deliberately get it wrong to force people to do camel case properly.

Show threadHat. AuDHD cat 😷🌺🍉🌻🔻Jul 1, 2023
@futurebird now im wondering if what i want is a sort of basic description of what most screen readers sound like when various tone indicators are used.
Like *this
And /s this
Show threadLuna Jul 1, 2023

@futurebird I think it's based on the first person to use the tag? It probably should be based on the amount of people that spelt the tag a certain way

I can confirm stars aren't read or emphasized by TalkBack, and I'm pretty sure glitch-soc formatting ignores and converts HTML tags meant to emphasize things for screen readers like em, because I couldn't hear a difference

Show thread❄️Faerie❄️Jul 1, 2023
@futurebird It just announces the star before and after :) Still gets the point across, though. I see that a lot though because of some RP places I am, so I could just notice it
Show threadCharlie MerryJul 1, 2023
@futurebird @GreenSkyOverMe They just read out the asterisks. Quite simple really.
Show threadGreenSkyOverMe (Monika)Jul 1, 2023
@futurebird VoiceOver reads it as: star however star.
I can test it with NVDA when I‘m on my computer, so probably on Monday.
Show threadGreenSkyOverMe (Monika)Jul 3, 2023
@futurebird NVDA also reads it as star however star.
Show thread🌕 Chelsea 🌻📚Jul 2, 2023
@futurebird Not sure if anyone else has answered your aside, but screen readers are pretty dumb, so they don't slow down or emphasize text with *s around it. Mine just says "star text star," and some don't even do that if you have it set to read you no punctuation. Then it would just read the text as normal.
Show threadSam LevineJul 2, 2023

@greengaybles I did not realize this and now feel bad since I've tried to look up how to get screen readers to give emphasis and the internet advice wasn't very helpful. Thanks for the heads up (I think maybe @JustGrist said something similar earlier today).

I guess the stars are better than all caps since at least they get ignored rather than annoyingly spelled out, but arg, there has got to be a better way (not that I'm a programmer or anything).

Show thread🌕 Chelsea 🌻📚Jul 2, 2023
@SRLevine @JustGrist Lol yes apparently several people said the same thing before me, I just didn't read all the replies. And honestly I think the stars are fine, because we understand what they represent and if the screen reader in question is set to read at least some punctuation, they're audible. They're not annoying or anything, at least to me, and I'm not sure what other option there is currently.
Show threadEllenJul 2, 2023
@futurebird @kristiedegaris Screen readers don't do anything special with text within asterisks, except say "star" before and after the text. This does help us know that it's set off from other text though, so the effect of emphasis is still achieved.
Show threadDawn AhukannaJul 2, 2023
@futurebird I’ve stared putting dashes between words as I’m not guaranteed that mastodon server isn’t going to .toLowerCase() hashtag string regardless of how I compose with CamelCase.