James Dreben 
Do you want #Meta to be blocked on *your* server when/if they #federate with #ActivityPub?
Yes
No
(just show me results)
Poll ended at .
yawnbox@Jdreben i think the topic should turn into a conversation-- what specific criteria, what specific behavior, should warrant censoring an activitypub instance?
in my mind the obvious issue here is that surveillance capitalism is an abuse of human rights
i am also wondering what specific data would facebook have access to from our instance
there's also value in federating with facebook if the goal is to help migrate users off facebook, if they even allow that
Durran Durrandon@yawnbox @Jdreben I mean that's pretty key, right? Meta federation should mean that I could migrate my Facebook account to a Mastodon server and still be able to chat with friends and family. I'm not sure what access to our data Meta would have that anyone who runs their own instance wouldn't have access to.
mybarkingdogs@Jdreben YES, because Facebook tends to heavily practice incorporating spaces into itself.
I personally don't want to interact with instances owned by Meta, and/or that are forced to play by its rules to interact with it and I don't want them stealing open source/volunteer work to incorporate as just another branch of their business.
8@Jdreben no because local networks on Meta platforms need to be migrated not rebuilt, and if I believe that then I can't be an absolutist. The poll looks to be 3-to-1 for blocking right now and that could be a good balance if instances reflected that split.
Da_Boom@Jdreben
I'm neither for nor against it. It really depends on what their platform adds and/or takes away from the fediverse and whether or not it will break the fediverse upon integration
If they do, and I can share my posts with Instagram users and follow Instagram users via mastodon, I'll probably remove/park my Instagram account - there's no need for the department of redundancy department and I prefer mastodon to Instagram
rifter@Jdreben Facebook users are unlikely to want to move, and allowing inroads to EEE for that company will not end well.
Paul-Gabriel Wiener@Jdreben Here's the thing: I am morally opposed to FB. For many reasons. Last straw for me was when they created a "News" tab to combat rampant misinformation, and added an avowed Nazi propaganda site as a trusted source.
If I can read my friends' posts from here without seeing FB ads, that wouldn't be a bad thing.
But I don't want my content populating their site and giving them more to sell. I don't want them to be able to scrape my data, either.
Catonauts@Jdreben I´m undecided about that, yet. I´m prone to yes. But in case of doubt, I can block Meta by myself.
@Jdreben To elaborate my thoughts on that a bit:
My tendency towards a Yes is grounded on Meta´s actual business, that is data mining and selling it for its own profit. I really don´t like the idea of Meta data mining in the Fediverse.
On the other hand, when Meta federates with Activity Pub and I would be able to keep in touch with people who hold an Insta account and vice versa, that would finally give me the opportunity to get rid of my FB account. I hold that account only to keep in touch with ppl which I met over the past 15 years and hold dear.
It would actually be great if I could only connect with these people but block the rest of it.
My tendency towards a Yes is grounded on Meta´s actual business, that is data mining and selling it for its own profit. I really don´t like the idea of Meta data mining in the Fediverse.
On the other hand, when Meta federates with Activity Pub and I would be able to keep in touch with people who hold an Insta account and vice versa, that would finally give me the opportunity to get rid of my FB account. I hold that account only to keep in touch with ppl which I met over the past 15 years and hold dear.
It would actually be great if I could only connect with these people but block the rest of it.
emma@Jdreben Whatever other people choose to do, I'll be moving to an instance which does not federate. I want as many firewalls as possible between them and the crap they pull.
It's a nice vision to think we'll be able to rescue some from that corporate cesspool. But if they haven't escaped already, why would they when they have access to what's going on here anyway?
Better approach is to talk to people in real life and if they're keen on Barcelona, point out that there are non-surveillance alternatives.
It's a nice vision to think we'll be able to rescue some from that corporate cesspool. But if they haven't escaped already, why would they when they have access to what's going on here anyway?
Better approach is to talk to people in real life and if they're keen on Barcelona, point out that there are non-surveillance alternatives.
Ed@Jdreben if it floods the server yes. I'll just block it myself if needed.
Wiktor - wikiyu@Jdreben I will "mute" it, so each follow will need approval. I know too good how much shit is going in meta.
MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$💙💛@Jdreben Not able to vote (#friendica ...) but please count me as "Yes"
Tom Cole@Jdreben
In addition to answering the poll, I wanted to chime in… While I too am pessimistic about how #meta connecting to the #fediverse will ultimately go, it feels inherently contrary to the inclusive philosophy embodied by Mastodon, etc. to *preemptively* decide that a participant should not be allowed to join.
We have good tools for dealing with this. It seems much more ethical to see whether or not it’s a problem before engaging in what is essentially capital punishment for an instance.
Crazy Pony@Jdreben Its complicated
I surely do not want to have that company using the federation as input for their data harvesting.
on the other side, i would really REALLY love to have a kind of filtered bridge to connect with people on Facebook because there is so much important stuff exclusively there
@crazy_pony From what I have read Facebook will not implement the Activity Pub Protocol, hence there will be no way to connect to anything FB. And I doubt that #Suckerberg will ever allow only a tiny hole in his walled kingdom. Meta´s "Barcelona" App will only allow one to connect with Instagram and vice versa - it´s still unclear to what extent, though.
@Jdreben
@Jdreben
Kingsley Uyi Idehen@Jdreben ,
Blocking #Meta isn't what the #Fediverse is supposed to be about.
What did I miss?
/cc @atomicpoet
Chris TrottierYes, and offering choice to users of a platform is always better than coercion via feed-blocking etc..
The #Fediverse has an ethos (I believe) that's fundamentally about loose-coupling and freedom of choice, above all else 😀
/cc @Jdreben
Rajeev Kumar@Jdreben I *own* my server, and no, I will never do that.
Andy McGuire 🐕@Jdreben I understand peoples valid concerns, btu my current thinking is that many of peoples valid concerns can be dismissed (initially) - because Meta clearly understand that if they don't play nicely with the fediverse, they will simply be defederated. At which point the whole exercise was a pointless waste of time and resources for them to implement. So I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt, before writing them off.
john r red-horse
The Tepid Emperor has moved...@Jdreben I didn’t come here to be told who or what I should see/interact with. That’s my decision.
Father Enoch
RIP Metaverse | 5 Minute Gaming News
Murphestophelese MurphMeister@Jdreben I would prefer silenced. If people want to seek out people to follow, fine, but I would not like to see the timelines saturated with Meta posts.
Mike Cohen
The Nexus of Privacy@Jdreben thanks so much for doing this poll!
If my math is right, this shows that 63.75% of the people who expressed an opinion (51/(51 + 29)) want their server to block.
It's striking because the (still-active) poll at https://mastodon.social/@nexusofprivacy/110456124484821875 currently shows only 29% of people expect their instance to block -- and multiple admins of large instances said they're not blocking.
Of course who knows what #Meta will actually do but we could well be in for some interesting times!
maegul@nexusofprivacy @Jdreben For sure!
That poll you link to is a great idea … highlights how there may be real tension between user bases and their admins. It makes sense though. There’d be all sorts of reasons why someone joins a particular instance, but only few would guarantee seeing eye to eye on many issues. Too much is conflated into what an instance is for this to be otherwise.
Otherwise, all the polling I’ve seen indicates decently sized splits on this issue. Interesting times!
Jon (now at neuromatch.social)@maegul #NotAllThePolls! This one is pretty close to unanimous: https://indieweb.social/@jdp23/110449505980762006
In terms of the tensions between users and admins, incentives are potentially different. #Meta's participation has clear benefits for site admins who are willing to share their users' data with Meta, as well as #ActivityPub developers who want jobs at (or research funding from) Meta.
Jon (@[email protected])
A #FediblockMeta poll on #defederation Which (if either) of these two hypothetical instances would you want your instance to block? - G is a hub for right-wing coup planning; hosts accounts that spew hate and disinformation; and is run by white supremacists - M is a hub for right-wing coup planning; sells ads that amplify hate and disinformation; contributes to genocides; and has a long track record of privacy abuses, discrimination, and law-breaking @[email protected] [ ] Bock G (but not M) [ ] Block M (but not G) [ ] Block both [ ] Don't block either
@jdp23 @Jdreben @nexusofprivacy
Yes, your poll and its point is well made!
The issue is that many will think of the “normal” people they know on these platforms and ignore their worst aspects as your poll highlights.
How many admins went to share data with meta? I’m actually not sure how admins would be thinking about the meta situation?!
@maegul There are comments from admins of some of the larger instances in the responses to https://mastodon.social/@nexusofprivacy/110458834683496365 It's striking that nobody there mentions the data sharing. In other discussions, though, the attitude I've seen is that "well all this data is basically public anyhow, Meta could get at if they wanted, so federating doesn't really change things."
@nexusofprivacy @jdp23 @Jdreben
Thanks! Hadn't noticed these replies, and yea, they not surprising. So basically all the mega instances are gonna federate unless stuff gets real funky.
Also, shout out to @quintessence breaking down their (hachyderm.io) moderation policy in detail! -
https://hachyderm.io/@quintessence/110461367732303169
quintessence :blobfoxflooftea: (@[email protected])
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] I spent a bit thinking about how to articulate how we proceed with policy decisions like these. There are a few layers that we consider for a situation like this. There are a few parts, so please bear with me while I explain. Short version: we take into account a variety of factors when choosing to moderate an instance. Meta (and others) are not an exception to this, but just business as usual. 1/9