DeepBlue V7.X

Hey, since usually asking questions here works quite well, I will try that again:

What makes a #matrix client something, that you would recommend to other people to try (even if you might not want to use it yourself). Or rather, what makes the client stable enough for day to day use for you. And what would make you recommend a client to someone as their first client to get started with #matrix?

I am aware, that everyone has different opinions there, so I am trying to gather everything. <3

Feb 22, 2023 at 11:04amWeb
Show threadpetur 😶🇺🇦🇵🇸🇹🇼Feb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 for a first client probably something that is close to what users had for another platform, sadly.
For me, most important is not to miss messages (beyond notifications, so visual clues in the app itself) and quick navigation between conversations
Show threadDeepBlue V7.XFeb 22, 2023
@peturdainn Hm, the part about familarity makes sense and I didn't consider that. Although I am not sure if that is a very good criteria to decide stability, but it will certainly help people get started on it. The other stuff are also very good points, thank you!
Show threadpetur 😶🇺🇦🇵🇸🇹🇼Feb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 just installed nheko to try it out, discovered that I already miss something: an indication in groupchats of who has read up to what post. Unless it is an option I overlooked.
Show threadDeepBlue V7.XFeb 22, 2023
@peturdainn No, you can only see if someone has read your messages, but the exact list of who read what is hidden behind a right click menu and not necessarily accurate. But noted, thanks!
Show threadHACK13Feb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 biggest thing for me is custom sticker support. Almost everyone has built in easy sticker support but element…
Show threadJeroen Franssen 🇧🇪Feb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7
Element works great nowadays. Some people complain about memory usage, but that's less an issue for me. Using it both on a private server for family and professional one for work.
Show threadDeepBlue V7.XFeb 22, 2023
@jeroen Well, I am not really looking for a specific client, but more for criteria, that define a "stable" or "recommendable" client. I.e. if I wanted to make a client list, what to put into the default list and what to put into the "keep an eye out for how this develops" list.
Show threadMoanosFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 Good support for Spaces, ofc. encryption and ideally mulit-identity support.
Show threadMark WieczorekFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 I use Matrix all the time, and it works fine for me. However, I can not recommend any matrix client to anyone (i.e., my research group, institution, spouse, family) at this point because the user interface is just not good. The iOS and Android clients are ok for chatting, but the web interface really is not close to being a replacement for Slack/Keybase. You can not search/find Spaces, the RSS/Slack bots are barely functional, the privacy/security setting are confusing, etc.
Show threadsarah tonin Feb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 for me its ability to scale fonts in the ui (even better if all are a single settings) bc reading text can be complicated sometimes, and as far as ive seen, not a lot of clients support it
Show threadMTRNord (they/them)Feb 22, 2023

@deepbluev7 this might seem simple but: just don't crash often.

Give me error messages I can send to the dev easily (no console).

Decent ui. I don't want to search for a feature (rule of thumb: things should be accessible with less than 3 clicks)

It should be quick. It's called "Instant"-Messaging for a reason (though I am aware of the matrix flaws.

It shouldn't turn my device into a space heater.

Show threadFredrikFeb 22, 2023

@deepbluev7 in my opinion, the Element client behaves funny. Sometimes I get a black shield on a contact and it might be difficult to resolve. And it is also difficult to figure out why the black shield occurred in the first place.

In my opinion the features of Signal or WhatsApp makes them a bit more attractive, but I'm don't think I want a 1:1 feature match on Element.

Show threadDeepBlue V7.XFeb 22, 2023

@fredrikkarlsson Does Element not explain the 3 states for shields (on hover or so)? Usually a grey shield means the user is "trusted on a first use basis" aka, they never changed their signing key, but you also didn't verify them specifically.

And yes, the argument about having familar features I heard a few times now.

Thank you!

Show threadFredrikFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 sorry, I neglected to mention that I am experiencing this on the iOS client. And it seems to have appeared once or twice for contacts I have had for at least a year.
Show threadSamuelFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 The sharing of keys must work smoothly
Show threadGeraldFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 Hi. My university uses https://element.io on the matrix system since 2 years. It runs smoothly and all colleagues and students I talked to get along well. I use it on Windows and Android parallel.
Therefore, I can definitively recommend it.
Element | Secure collaboration and messaging

Element is a Matrix-based end-to-end encrypted messenger and secure collaboration app. It’s decentralised for digital sovereign self-hosting, or through a hosting service such as Element Matrix Services. Element operates on the open Matrix network to provide interoperability and easy connections.

Show threadVint ProxFeb 22, 2023

@deepbluev7

Once #Matrix team rolls out #ElementX for Android and desktop, I will be advising it left and right. 🦀

Show threadbenniFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 it should just work on any device.
Show threadDeepBlue V7.XFeb 22, 2023
@benni So you prefer one client on all devices over specific ones for desktop vs mobile for example?
Show threadbenniFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 it would be sufficient if any client would work. my experience in the past was, that is nearly impossible to get a group of 20 people to chat with matrix because at least 2 or 3 of them could simply get no client to work.
Show threadKitKatFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 simple, performant, good looking(see Whatsapp tbh), supports common features(reactions, voice, video, replies, voice messages, link preview, location sharing, images, videos), almost never decryption issues, simple setup (like create account in background including cross signing and key backup, ideally security key combined with account pw like Circuli, ask if you want to be found by phone number and/or search you contact list), available in gplay/iOS Store, no bugs,
Show threadAklysFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 since most people aren't overly technical I'd say ease of use with similarity or parity to competitors with more technical qualities under some advanced settings for when someone learns more. Also ease of installing and signing up.
Show threadalbi von skládka 🇨🇿Feb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 FluffyChat is imho ideal for newcomers, since it's nice and not overcomplicated like Element/Schildi on the other hand there are many "simple" clients just not mature enough
I also use web Cinny as a daily driver, but I still keep element for video calls
Show threadTobias FrechFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 Using Element is a pretty good experience already. For me the handling of Matrix spaces could be improved. Also a easy, clean and intuitive selection for which channels I want get notification and for which not. Perhaps putting this distinction front and center to the UI could lead to an interesting UI design.
Show threadMauve 👁💜Feb 22, 2023

@deepbluev7 Biggest pain points I had is stuff not loading fast enough or databases getting corrupted if the app or device crashes suddenly.

It's honestly a low bar, but a lot of clients have had trouble clearing it in my experience.

Show threadtdFeb 22, 2023

@deepbluev7 Hmm easier handling of e2ee and chat backup stuff would be nice (ye I know it's not thatttt difficult right now, but not everyone is a pro)

Maybe a matrix authenticator :3, this was nice too https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals/pull/3265

MSC3265: Login and SSSS with a Single Password by cvwright · Pull Request #3265 · matrix-org/matrix-spec-proposals

The idea here is to use a password hashing function (like Bcrypt) on the client side, to turn one secret (the user's password) into two secrets that we can use for the login password and the SSSS p...

GitHub
Show threadMobianFeb 22, 2023

@deepbluev7

1) ui needs to be mobile phone screen friendly, aka scale to these screen dimensions

2) not look super barebones and raw, ie provide a somewhat slick interface (otherwise I'd go for matrix from emacs)

3) support a decent feature set. Some clients were not even able to display unread markers until some time ago :-)

4) provide a view in which ONLY rooms with unread messages are displayed rather than a flat list with a 1000 rooms. :-)

Show threadMobianFeb 22, 2023
@deepbluev7 and I am aware the point 2 is a rather vague, subjective and personal. IMHO cinny.im is slick, neochat is not (yet).
Show threadchfkch  Feb 22, 2023

@deepbluev7
Element on Android/Desktop
Nheko on LinuxMobile/Desktoo

gotta try Fluffychat aswell, but not sure about the feature-completeness there.

#matrix

Show threadBlort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️Feb 22, 2023

@deepbluev7 Honestly, for me it's less about advanced features that generally get all the press, and more about video/audio calls ringing/picking up reliably.

Being able to connect to a #UnifiedPush server is important so I'm not recommending something that will send all conversations to #Google / #Apple, but the most frustrating thing is a family member trying to call and it just doesn't ring, or you can't pick up. That's what's made family members quit #Matrix altogether in the past.

Show threadSchnuffleFeb 22, 2023

@deepbluev7

Recommending Matrix to non It people has not been working for me, most do not accept to loose comfort in exchange for more privacy and federation.
I found a better route, I’m the It guy in my community which gives me a lever to twist their priorities.
Now it‘s, use matrix and easily get support or use something else and loose the comfort of easy support.
That has been a good motivation for many to move and after getting used to it, they mostly started to appreciate

Show threadSchnuffleFeb 22, 2023

@deepbluev7

First client: maybe Nheko Desktop, Fluffychat IOS, Elements Android

Reason for change: Federation so Option to selfhost

Show threadAndrewFeb 24, 2023

@deepbluev7 I just need something to look and feel like a 'normal' chat app, and not randomly sign out which is an issue for some apps.

Fluffychat is a long way in the lead for me, but it needs a boring fork/version with a boring name and a boring icon. I can't ask anyone to install Fluffychat, I need an MChat.