Thomas Zimmer

Rightwing extremists advocating for the dissolution of the country is neither new nor surprising.

The fact that such extremists have risen to the center of conservative politics and continue to be elevated within the Republican Party, however, is indicative of an acute threat.

Feb 20, 2023 at 3:24pmIvory for iOS
Show threadThomas ZimmerFeb 20, 2023
It really says a lot about how far the Republican Party has radicalized to the right that we all know this stuff will neither have any personal consequences for Marjorie Taylor Greene nor be forcefully condemned by any of her Republican colleagues. That’s just where we are.
Show threadThomas ZimmerFeb 20, 2023

I certainly get the urge to dismiss and ignore Marjorie Taylor Greene. But it won’t work. She is an elected official in good standing with the rest of her party, in a position of influence, fully intent on using her power. Her extremism is increasingly that of the Republican Party itself.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/13/extremists-like-marjorie-taylor-greene-are-the-future-of-the-republican-party

Extremists like Marjorie Taylor Greene are the future of the Republican party

It’s impossible to understand American politics without grappling in earnest with why Greene’s extremism is widely seen as justified on the right

The Guardian
Show threadThomas ZimmerFeb 20, 2023
And as much as I get the temptation to say: Go ahead! Go do your own reactionary thing! - That’s just not how America’s political geography works. The “blue states vs. red states” narrative too often obscures what is primarily an urban vs. rural divide.
Show threadThomas ZimmerFeb 20, 2023
“Well, they’ll have to vote with their feet and move!” I’m sure a lot of young people, especially, will do exactly that. But it leaves those behind who aren’t able to uproot their entire existence – often precisely the people who will suffer most from white reactionary politics.
Show threadSpicewallaFeb 20, 2023

@tzimmer_history

Convincing D voters to move out of red states is even one of their stated goals.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article262849238.html

Show threadKee HinckleyFeb 20, 2023

@Spicewalla @tzimmer_history that only works if they continue to suppress the Black vote. Otherwise they don’t have a majority even in red states.

Which is also why I disagree that this is rural vs. urban. It’s far more about race. It’s just easier to use racism to scare rural whites than urban whites.

Show threadThomas ZimmerFeb 20, 2023
@nazgul @Spicewalla “It’s not rural vs urban, it’s about race” assumes those are somehow mutually exclusive when, actually, they are closely intertwined. Tons of great research on the reasons behind the urban vs rural divide. I’d strongly suggest staying away from simplifying “I think it’s this… I believe it’s that…” arguments. Not a matter of opinion. Again, tons of empirical evidence.
Show threadKee HinckleyFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history Agreed. I was oversimplifying and not well. I was responding to “primarily an urban vs. rural divide” which made it sound to me like you weren’t factoring race into it at all, which probably was not your internet. In any case, it’s far more complicated than short posts are going to capture.
Show threadLassielmrFeb 20, 2023
@Spicewalla @tzimmer_history surely anyone with the means to do that are already considering their options.
Show threadElizabeth SudduthFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history Also, I don't want to leave. I'm proud to be an NC native and proud to live in Georgia. We have amazing climate, great food, great music, and the majority of us are great people. Racist traitors like Greene are the exception here, and I'm not abandoning my neighbors to her abuse.
Show threadVictoriaFeb 20, 2023
@hydropsyche @tzimmer_history
But, you are going to have to organize and get like-minded people to the polls.
Show threadNow @christinkallama@hcommonsFeb 20, 2023

@runkleva @hydropsyche

Which Georgians have become exceptionally good at. But they are fighting entrenched voter suppression and white supremacy systems, and help from the national level, such as passing the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, and future Supreme Court appointments, is also fundamental. "We" are going to have to organize to make democracy a priority.

Show threadElizabeth SudduthFeb 20, 2023
@christinkallama @runkleva Thank you! Exactly that. At this point I thought most folks knew that grassroots work got Ossoff and Warnock elected, restoring Democratic control of the Senate, and about Better Georgia and Fair Fight and our current fights like #StopCopCity and #SaveTheOkefenokee. We are working so hard here and could use backup!
Show threadLassielmrFeb 20, 2023
@hydropsyche @tzimmer_history how did she obtain the votes? A whole lot of people must agree with her batshit crazy dangerous views. But as a Scot who loves Georgia I do agree you should not have to move.
Show threadElizabeth SudduthFeb 21, 2023
@lassielmr @tzimmer_history She is in a single, very gerrymandered district in the far northwestern corner of the state. Georgia has 14 Congressional seats. If you're going to judge our state by who represents us in Congress, you have to also consider Nikema Williams, Hank Johnson, David Scott, Sanford Bishop, and Lucy McBath.
Show threadLassielmrFeb 21, 2023
@hydropsyche @tzimmer_history I’m not judging at all. Can’t as I don’t live there. And every country has a variation of her. My mind always thinks ‘what type of person votes for these crazies’
Show threadWoozle HypertwinFeb 21, 2023

@hydropsyche @tzimmer_history

Speaking from NC: they can't my home either. The balance everywhere is slowly tilting against them over the long run.

Show threadDewi IoanFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history The most extreme "Red State" Wyoming only 67.4% of voters voted Republican... but only 67% of eligible voters are registered and only 44.4% voted - so only 43.3% voted republican ... It's not really Red
Show threadGreg BellFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history also didn't the rural areas historically kill and chase out those of more progressive views and darker shades of skin, unless properly subjugated by class and neighborhood? Even today the entire countryside feels like a giant Nextdoor that treats anyone who doesn't appear to "belong" with suspicion and hostility.
Show threadice.cream.assassinFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history I think it's important to focus on the salient points of what she is doing. Like, in this case, I think it's less important to think in terms of 'secession' and more in terms of 'she continues to promote the idea that only a limited subset of Americans are valid and she is intentionally inciting her base to believe that'.
Show threadNick FleisherFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history At one time it would have been considered a big problem for the Speaker of the House to be harboring secessionists in his own caucus
Show threadMichaelFeb 20, 2023
@nickfleisher @tzimmer_history it still could be if journalists had any interest in calling it out.
Show threadf*cking b*tch clubFeb 20, 2023

@tzimmer_history The fact that anyone pays attention to her at all is alarming. The fact that the Speaker tolerates/encourages her is vile! (though it shows his weakness….)

But I doubt that “everyone I talk to” is more than a handful of like-minded seditionists.

Show threadHahahagidaFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history I am nearly afraid to ask, but what did MJG say now? That jewish space lasers not only cause forest fires but also earthquakes? ...
Show threadMichaelFeb 20, 2023
@Hahahagida @tzimmer_history it's in the first post of the very thread you're responding to.
Show threadHahahagidaFeb 21, 2023
@MikeyTsi @tzimmer_history Sorry, new here. I was responding to your post in my feed so did not actually see it as part of a thread at first.
Show threadjimrayFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history are you suggesting that when Mitt Romney tried shaming that grifter from Long Island it wasn’t a fix for decades of Republican revanchism? I thought for sure that would do it.
Show threadShawnFeb 20, 2023

@tzimmer_history average GOP voters are all on board for civil war. That’s what “national divorce” means. Killing Americans to get control of land.

The U.S. won’t give up Guam. Does the GOP honestly think they can just walk away with Kentucky? No, they know what they mean of killing Americans and stealing land, or pushing liberals onto reservations.

Show threade. e. yikesFeb 20, 2023

@tzimmer_history You make very valid points, but it’s worth noting that there’s no shortage of left-leaning people on social media who think it’s smart/edgy to support this (“I wouldn’t miss the south”, “Let them secede”, *GIF of Bugs Bunny letting FL float away*, etc.)

There are some already popping up in your replies 😕

It’s insanely short-sighted, and suggests that all the women/minorities/LGBTQ+ people in so-called “red states” just get abandoned to their fates. But still popular!

Show threadJeffFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history GQP wants it's own country like Brexit
Show threadJoshFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history "Everyone I talk to says this," says more about the crowd that MTG hangs with than it does about the message she's trying to convey, though both are terrifying enough in their own way.
Show thread@pennyivyFeb 20, 2023
@stumblewyk @tzimmer_history She isn't "talking" to anyone. She just made that up. Like Trump's "sir" stories. Fantasy.
Show threadBarry Schwartz 🫖Feb 20, 2023

@stumblewyk @tzimmer_history

Notice how she imagines a ‘divorce’ and yet still the one federal government.

One could say that’s stupidity but I say it is more a sign of cowardice. She wants to conduct violence against Americans without giving up the benefits the country gives her.

Show threadMadisonFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history If this happened, red states would be *shocked* by how much they rely on blue states to stay financially afloat. To be clear I don't think this is a good idea, but I always find it ironic when conservatives argue for this because if it ever happened they'd be forced to realize their policies are regressive and destructive.
Show threadQueen of AnxietyFeb 20, 2023
@maddramaqueen @tzimmer_history I was thinking this, too. At this point, I'm starting to think we should let them do this just so we can lean back and mock the disaster that follows. Except for all the people who DON'T want it to happen who live in those places, of course, who wouldn't deserve the pain it would cause them.
Show threadMattFeb 20, 2023
@queenofnewyork @maddramaqueen @tzimmer_history right, we can’t just abandon places and say they got what they voted for, because many did not
Show threadBruce Johnson ✅Feb 20, 2023
@maddramaqueen @tzimmer_history When I see trolling like this, I usually feed them with a "Could you please provide some details about how you see this happening? How much of the national debt are you taking on? How do you plan to manage the transit of commerce across the borders? I think tolls for trucks that cross from red to blue are reasonable, how about you? Let me know because, under the right conditions, I'd be happy to support this initiative."
Show threadPusher Of Pixels (old account)Feb 20, 2023
@maddramaqueen @tzimmer_history almost as surprised as when TX tells them to piss off when they ask for help. TX being one of the few red 'donor' states I think.
Show threadMadisonFeb 20, 2023
@pixelpusher220 @tzimmer_history They still can't handle their own power grid, though. Even with enough money conservative policies are doomed.
Show threadPusher Of Pixels (old account)Feb 20, 2023

@maddramaqueen @tzimmer_history

What's doomed are fact free, fascist political ideologies fueled on nothing but grievance - but only if we work at it.

That's not conservative by any definition. It is what the formerly 'conservative' party has dived into headfirst unfortunately.

Show threadDarrel PlantFeb 20, 2023

@tzimmer_history
One of them was the Republican nominee for President 60 years ago.

https://youtu.be/9-VPzUazQVY

LBJ Eastern Seaboard 64

YouTube
Show threadRay Gulick, he/him/wtf 🇺🇦 ❌👑Feb 20, 2023

@tzimmer_history

MTG's statement shows MAGA understands they're losing the battle for American hearts and minds; trying to peel off what they can before they lose further ground.

Show threadParker MolloyFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history I would 100% be okay with this, though
Show threadParker MolloyFeb 20, 2023
@tzimmer_history Impossible as it may be
Show threadSpicewallaFeb 20, 2023

@parkermolloy @tzimmer_history

Nope. The most energetic civil rights organizing comes from red states because the people there are on the front lines.

Show threadParker MolloyFeb 20, 2023
@Spicewalla @tzimmer_history See: next post https://masto.ai/@parkermolloy/109897826879851855
Parker Molloy (@[email protected])

@[email protected] Impossible as it may be

Mastodon
Show threadParker MolloyFeb 20, 2023
@Spicewalla @tzimmer_history Also, you really don't get to tell me "nope" about what I would be okay with. I would move anywhere in the country if you told me that I would be able to live there free from efforts to criminalize my existence. In a heartbeat.
Show threadParker MolloyFeb 20, 2023
@Spicewalla @tzimmer_history "No, we need to keep the country together!!!" Literally why? I don't want to live in a country ruled by DeSantis and Marjorie Taylor Greene. Break it in two, give me the option to move to the one that's not insane, and let that be that.
Show threadLily StarFeb 20, 2023

@parkermolloy @Spicewalla @tzimmer_history "UNITED States of America"
Fuck any treasonous talk of separation - that is literally the voice of seditious traitors, like civil war defenders and Russian propagandists.

I have lost any respect I might have had for you, as should any American who isn't selling their soul to make a buck.

Show threadParker MolloyFeb 20, 2023
@starlily Calm down.
Show threadLily StarFeb 20, 2023
@parkermolloy No.
Show threadMatt PiperFeb 20, 2023
@parkermolloy @Spicewalla @tzimmer_history Not so simple to just move to a blue state. For example: lots of Black folks live in Mississippi, Georgia, & other places where Republican governments & gerrymandering guarantee they are poorly represented, & shitty governance contributes to low property values so that selling in the red state does not yield enough money to buy in the blue state. Plus, leave generations of family, friends, jobs, & schools behind?
Show threadParker MolloyFeb 20, 2023
@mpiper I said that I was in favor of a wild hypothetical that involved magically splitting the country in two and letting people choose where to be. It's weird that people keep responding to act like I'm actively pushing for this to happen.
Show threadMatt PiperFeb 20, 2023
@parkermolloy in that case I empathize with the feeling behind the statement.
Show threadMatt PiperFeb 21, 2023
@parkermolloy but the statement ignores a lot of reality. Easier to kind of mock or dismiss my prior points than to deal with the facts I brought up that are often ignored when this issue comes up. No one should feel they have to move to another state or another country for safety, liberty, or fair treatment. This country is ours (democracy loving people who believe in equal rights for all) and we fight for it together for all of us. I won’t cede a single state to secessionists.
Show threadParker MolloyFeb 21, 2023

@mpiper and when DeSantis wins the presidency in 2024 and pushes to criminalize my existence, all the liberals will just go, "Shoulda voted harder!" and continue not giving a single fuck about whether or not people are actually hurt.

This is exactly what they did during the Trump years, and it's exactly what they'll do again.

Show threadParker MolloyFeb 21, 2023
@mpiper Trump banned trans people from the military. What did liberals do? Nothing. Posted about it on Twitter for a day and then did nothing. Trump kept doing things like that, and whenever I'd try to speak out, I'd get lectured by some "It's Mueller Time!" dope that it was a "distraction" and that I should "stay focused!"
Show threadParker MolloyFeb 21, 2023
@mpiper So, this isn't a question of whether you'd sacrifice a single state, but whether you'd sacrifice an entire country, because that's the reality: people do not give a shit about things that affect others.
Show threadMatt PiperFeb 21, 2023
@parkermolloy we are allies arguing with each other. We probably agree on nearly every issue. Probably everyone participating in this thread is similarly concerned and aware about the dangers facing this country and its people. For sure the world needs more empathy, but many people actually do give a shit. And a bunch of those people voted and ELECTED Biden, who overturned Trump’s ban and nearly every one of his executive orders.
Show threadIwillyeahFeb 20, 2023
@parkermolloy it's equally weird that you would push back when they give you reasons why they disagree with you. That first response of yours was quite the stomp.