Mastodawn

A lot of people are asking why this is even a thing. This isn't my photo, but rather than individually answering them with the same info, here are some possible reasons

(Having a medical hardware background, I only have a brief glimpse into these offices)

Being in the medical field is in some ways like being in the military. Long hours of boredom, punctuated by excitement and possibly violence. To keep yourself from going mad, staff used to bring a radio or keep a TV. Years ago, my doctor had an FM radio

Today, staff probably fill the same role with the thing they're familiar with. If they have Alexa at home, that's the thing they'll bring. These are people, not the medical droids from StarWars

Most people are completely oblivious about privacy when it comes to their digital world. This WILL NOT change any time soon, I'm sorry to say. The ecosystem of the modern consumer revolves around data capitalism and companies are incentivized to farm attention whenever possible

JP Roberts Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk I wouldn’t think a health care organization would allow a smart speaker on their network. Or any personal device.

@jpr602 Oh, it happens all the time. Sometimes, it's the administration staff who does it

Blake Leonard Feb 9, 2023

@jpr602 @cypnk They typically have public networks for personal devices (patients and I sure damn hope the staff can use it too).
Also you can probably make it work with a phone hotspot.

@jpr602 @cypnk yeah... I've heard of doctors in very rural areas using their personal devices and syncing services to help with patient consults.

Or sending tests/scans to be processed outside the legal jurisdiction of the state. People tend to use the easiest method to get the job done.

The central weakness will always be the human factor.

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Feb 12, 2023

@onepict @jpr602 @cypnk in long term residential care facilities, patients (and their families) introduce devices such as smartspeakers, for entertainment and to use like telephones.

Added to which, the wide usage of cheap switch mode power supplies plus modern building designs and wiring codes (which turn many buildings into Faraday cages in the interests of electrical safety) mean that listening to a portable FM radio often isn't possible as the noise floor is well into VHF frequencies..

Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK Feb 12, 2023

@onepict @jpr602 @cypnk

there's a lot of folk who use smartspeakers to listen to linear radio stations in offices or other building as the VHF signal (whether Band II or DAB/+) simply doesn't get into the building any more (or the receiver needs to be placed by a window in an outside wall, which not everyone has access to in a large building)

JP Roberts Feb 12, 2023

@vfrmedia thanks

Duncan Murray Feb 11, 2023

@jpr602 @cypnk Nah, we have had radios and proper sound systems in admin areas and especially operating theatres forever. I imagine an echo would work well in theatre when the surgeon is scrubbed up and operating.

meejah Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk Now I want one of those "TV-B-Gone" devices, but for Alexa et al...

Olav Feb 10, 2023

@cypnk I dunno. Even if they're mute the speaker (vs mute the mic) perhaps they should have a BT speaker. But I don't expect folks to know how porous Alexa's "privacy" is

r҉ustic cy͠be̸rpu̵nk🤠🤖Feb 10, 2023

@olavf Most people have absolutely no clue what privacy is. And consider lots of people in the workforce now have grown up in an era where they were always online

Olav Feb 10, 2023

@cypnk lots of people don't realize privacy went out in the late 60s with the advent of credit cards where what money you spent when became a commodity to be sold.

But folks should know "privacy" these days is largely transactional ~ if you're giving some up you should get something in return, even if it's only convenience.

But way beyond all that, if there's a sign then management knows and should ban the devices. Not that BT speakers are especially secure either

r҉ustic cy͠be̸rpu̵nk🤠🤖Feb 10, 2023

@olavf I wouldn't be surprised if the device belonged to management in the first place

Olav Feb 10, 2023

@cypnk yeah I wouldn't be surprised despite any "smart" device potentially compromising security, and Amazon arguably the worst

Jessamyn Feb 10, 2023

@cypnk we think about this in the public library world a lot, too. In the United States all states have patron privacy laws, they're not as strong as HIPAA, but they matter. And staff might have phones that are listening for voice commands like "hey Siri" or "hey Google" and while it's not the end of the day to have phone set up like this, it's important to be mindful.

Megapenguinx Feb 11, 2023

@cypnk another thing to this is that most people’s phones/watches/whatever smart devices they bring with them also probably leak all their personal info. Patients don’t know and end up with that info in random databases

@cypnk bold of them to assume the echo isn't still listening. 😏

@onepict As they say, if it's got power, it's still listening

Till Feb 10, 2023

@cypnk @onepict

When I was in the military, we had to leave our phones at the door in certain buildings, because removing the battery wasn't enough, to prevent them from being listening devices. This was in the early 2000s.
Don't rely on an echo not listening in, just because the power cord is removed.

nobletrout Feb 9, 2023

@onepict @cypnk I mean they said muted, not deafed….

@nobletrout @cypnk yeah.... I remember when I was a kid, Receptionists at your local doctors surgery weren't meant to gossip about patient information.

So perhaps that's the answer to explain the privacy issues with an echo.

Saying that patient information occasionally did leak via loose lips in the surgery. Living in a smallish town was fun....

b4ux1t3

#1️⃣Feb 9, 2023

@onepict @cypnk Wait, do Echos not have a physical switch?

Geez, at least Google Home (Nest? whatever) devices have physical switches that disable the microphone. I have no illusions about my privacy while the switch is on, but it's verifiable that their mic is off entirely when the switch is off.

Chalk one up for Google, I guess. Good job Google, doing the ABSOLUTE BARE MINIMUM for privacy (and literally nothing else).

@b4ux1t3 @onepict I searched around a bit and it does seem like the Echo did have a hardware switch to the microphones and the mute status persists between reboots

Emphasis on "did" though. I don't know if this is still the case with new hardware iterations so don't quote me on that

David Senk Feb 11, 2023

@b4ux1t3 @onepict @cypnk is there a tear down showing that the physical switch is actually doing anything? Do you know if that tear down actually applies to the device in your possession? Have you tore it down yourself?

I mean, from an electronics perspective there isn’t that much of a difference between a switch and a latching button… but psychologically… there’s a very big difference.

For all you know it’s just the switch for the little indicator LED.

b4ux1t3

#1️⃣Feb 11, 2023

@david @onepict @cypnk there are several teardown videos out there, and I've had to take one of mine apart to reattach the ribbon cable (babies love throwing things) As far as I can tell, the races going to the speakers physically disconnect when you flip the switch. Of course, they could be hiding some chicanery inside the PCB, but that's doubtful. That would be more expensive for not a whole lot of benefit.

The button on the Alexa isn't a latching button, it's just a normal tactile switch.

https://www.st.com/en/mems-and-sensors/mems-microphones.html

David Senk Feb 11, 2023

@b4ux1t3 @onepict @cypnk there could be more microphones you aren’t even aware of… would you recognize a MEMS microphone if you saw one?

The odds are that there's no benefit for them to design and hide the presence of a covert listening device. Most people leave their smart devices on all of the time anyway

If you don't trust it, that's fine; that's your prerogative.

I have a life to live, and it's too short to be jumping at every potential boogeyman. Best effort is more than adequate for me.

I control what I can (pihole, noscript, IoT vlan, etc), but I'm not going to waste time on things I can't.

R O B I N Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk @onepict Why on earth is such a device even in that setting? 🤷🏽‍♂️

@robin @cypnk probably for the music.

But it's not the first horror story I've heard about medical care and doctors exposing patient information with any device in the name of convenience.

Healthcare and surgeries are a minefield for your privacy.

@robin @cypnk my favourite was hearing about physical patient information being dumped on one of the main roads in Brisbane.

I mean to be fair it was medical information that was due to be destroyed, but it's still sensitive info.

If medical authorities can't safeguard physical data, then there's Buckleys chance of them safeguarding virtual data.

Till Feb 10, 2023

@onepict @robin @cypnk

Having developed Software for that field, I totally agree. Most people in that field are very competent in medical issues, but have absolutely no idea when it comes to computer related stuff. It's just magic to them.

https://spectra.video/w/myY7hhoYL6mppp7u7vbQZX

@till @robin @cypnk I did a talk at LCA in 2020 about mass data collection, but I also briefly covered the way that various governments and medical care offices are careless and don't safeguard data. I'd got some of the medical anecdotes from someone who is an IT professional in the health industry and it was a constant battle for them.

RFC 1984: Or why you should start worrying about encryption backdoors and mass data collection

PeerTube

Mike Spooner Feb 10, 2023

@till @onepict @robin @cypnk Which points to the nugget of the issue: some computer-related stuff *is* a "medical issue", in an auxiliary sense. Perhaps medical training and education needs to also cover at least some basics there, wrt PHI at least?

r҉ustic cy͠be̸rpu̵nk🤠🤖Feb 10, 2023

@shelldozer @till @onepict @robin That would be the sensible approach, but it probably won't happen for a good while. The medical field is very conservative when it comes to new procedures (for good reasons). And consider that many of the staff are from a time when Amazon didn't exist or were still just selling books

Mitch 🌵Feb 9, 2023

@robin @cypnk @onepict now that’s the million dollar question.

BenCisco

@robin @cypnk @onepict
This is the correct question.

Mx. Savanni D'Gerinel Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk why is there a known evesdropping device in a confidential area?

@savanni Most likely for the music. Medical staff have long hours, sometimes having little else to do unless there's an emergency. Back in the day, they would have kept an FM radio

Mx. Savanni D'Gerinel Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk There are a lot of music playback devices that don't have surveillance microphones.

@savanni See my reply to the original post

berensn Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk
It should be completely unplugged

Diddly Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk @thegibson I would go one step further and say it should be unplugged

The Doctor Feb 9, 2023

@diddly @cypnk @thegibson A pair of nail clippers works just fine.

Coles Street Pothole Feb 10, 2023

@drwho @diddly @cypnk @thegibson Or a hammer.

The Doctor Feb 10, 2023

@ColesStreetPothole @diddly @cypnk @thegibson Cutting the power line means there's less of a chance of getting caught and having to pay for a new one.

Mark Hughes Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk

Muted 🤦‍♂️
Smashed to pieces 👍

Mitch 🌵Feb 9, 2023

@markhughes @cypnk I agree. I’m not sure I’d trust it even if it was muted.

Corvid Crone Feb 10, 2023

@markhughes @cypnk that's what I did with mine! Especially gratifying that it was given to me by a toxic AF boss with a religious quote on it.

Steve Karsch 🤘🏻

@cypnk Yesterday, I called a new doctor to make an appointment. As I am a new patient, I need to fill out the requisite paperwork. The person on the phone sent the forms over from their *personal* e-mail address and asked me to complete them and send them back.
The system works! #privacy

Simon Brooke Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk you have to wonder why a surveillance device is permitted in a space in which people may discuss confidential information at all.

Wigwam Jones Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk they already know.

Richard J. Acton Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk Well that's concerning.

Bertrand Russell Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk Well, health professionals are optimists by definition these days…

Raven Onthill Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk does muting it stop it from listening?

...because pressing a button that triggers a software subroutine to turn the light red or whatever is absolutely a guarantee of privacy and confidentiality.

Blast it.

@gabriel

LisPi Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk Just yeet the #telescreen snitch out the window 😭

Anne Sjoukje Schurer Feb 9, 2023

@cypnk
Why would Amazon Echo be activated in the first place?

@annesjoukje I wouldn't be surprised if it's the case here