Dave Winer ☕️You can’t trust corporate APIs. The only ones you can trust are open APIs that aren’t owned by anyone -- like the web, http, html, rss. You have to watch out because the bigco’s will try to own those too. To a large extent Google already owns the web. And they are throwing their weight around in much more consequential ways than twitter. But Google is invisble to the press. That will end someday.
Antranig Vartanian 
@davew and good morning to you too!
i guess that's a joke of some sort?
@davew not really! I have noticed for the last couple of days that when you toot in the morning (your morning), it’s hardcore facts about the Open Web, mostly things that many people miss.
So every time I see it, I say to myself “ah, looks like Dave is awake!”
This time I decided to actually say “Good morning” out loud 😄
Andy Chan@davew Google is not really invisible to the press. Manifest v3 is a good example.
@andychan -- they're invisible from this angle. it's the same way journalists missed all the features that cambridge analytica used when they were announced. they don't get the connection, i think.
@davew I think we were burnt by Twitter API many years ago. Don’t build a business on top of another business (especially purely based on APIs)
okay i've certainly heard that from other people. i expected them to burn us from the beginning. i've been through this with other platform vendors. as they say this isn't my first rodeo.
Mark Gardner@andychan Dave has explained many times why he went with #Twitter identities for his services, and also why one can’t wait for perfection, especially with corporate vendors:
• http://scripting.com/2017/06/23.html#a100643
• http://scripting.com/2019/08/25/150613.html#a152237
• http://scripting.com/2021/10/13/140500.html?title=whyWeUseTwitterIdentity#a140548
• http://scripting.com/2022/06/08/144243.html?title=whatIsIdentity#a144455
But even though @davew expected to get burned, he couldn’t have foreseen the unprecedented speed, severity, and callousness of their recent actions.
here's the deal, i don't really care. i kind of like the pressure of having to turn this corner quickly. and users won't have anything to complain about if one of the apps is down for a few days during the transition. users have a way of only thinking about themselves and treating individual developers like myself as if we're companies. this way people will feel a bit of appreciation i hope.
Ben Pate 🤘🏻@mjgardner @andychan @davew it should be (kinda) straightforward to replace one OAuth provider with another one, yes?
JarOCats™ 🏳️🌈
Blubrry Podcasting Founder@davew You never build your business relying on someone else's business model.
@todd -- i'm afraid that's unavoidable. think about it. just by building on the web you're stuck with google's business model. you live in their ecosystem and they can shut you down any time they want.
Steve YelvingtonMy favorite example is Google's pushing AMP as a way "to help webpages load faster" when it was Google's nightmarish advertising and surveillance code that was slowing down the Web in the first place.
Jared Smith
Ryuno-Ki@jaredwsmith
The last major project (a news outlet) insisted on implementing AMP - even when Alphabet announced its EoL!
Pointed to analytics that showed how much traffic it generated.
Matt Terenzio@RyunoKi @jaredwsmith @steve @davew There isn't anything about AMP that is anti-web. It's still way better than 99% of the news sites, that are practically un-usable.
And things like caching on the edge have no feasible replacement that I've seen.
But, you see, since it isn't being supported I'm not building on it.
That's life on the open web/
And things like caching on the edge have no feasible replacement that I've seen.
But, you see, since it isn't being supported I'm not building on it.
That's life on the open web/
I'm on the fence here.
AMP has some good ideas that led to faster loading times etc.
But I don't want to have that as dedicated build + hosted on Google servers.
The web is more than Google
@RyunoKi @jaredwsmith @steve @davew I hear ya. Just wish it went another way, but in. time we'll figure other ways to handle some of the good stuff it proposed
@RyunoKi @librenews @steve @davew Yeah, at the end of the day it makes my skin crawl at just how much of an extortion racket Google made web dev in the 2010s through its search products.
Edit: And to be fair, web developers did not do themselves any favors with JavaScript maximalism, the implementation of SPAs on 99% of sites that weren’t good use cases for them, etc.
I build a reputation for ranting against Angular. Even it'll cost me some contracts. 😅
Deus
Doug BostromIndeed!
Their plan is not your plan. Your plan is subordinate to their plan. Their plan isn't centrally concerned with solving your problems. Your schedule will follow their schedule. You are an ancillary to another purpose.
Public utilities are entirely for the purpose of providing public necessities.
Christopher 
I'll play devil's advocate; not all bigco's where evil or fully evil. Sun Microsystems gave us NFS, a now open source protocol, and OpenOffice and OpenDocument format, that gave us LibreOffice.
Chris Ellis@davew very much like you should not trust Open Source projects controlled by a single company.
It's a shame so many web devs enable Google by only using Chrome for dev work.
Chrome has become the new IE!
As they say: power corrupts.
Firefox has issues and need to up their game, but change is not achieved without people standing for what they believe in and making hard choices.
newtype@davew still mad at microsoft killing imap basic auth (even over tls) for exchange
Claudius (legacy account)@davew I believe it is worse. I think *some* journalists know, but Google is also the hand that feeds them. Can't bite that.
Actually if you're a monopoly that's illegal. They also do it with HTTPS and probably other things I don't know about.
📄 Mehdi.doc@davew they did help impose DRM on popular browsers, which leave us unable to use SVOD platforms in any browser that doesn't have it.
Dr Brian of London (Dev)🖥@davew there are some APIs and systems and protocols which are not owned by corporations but have self sustaining economic reasons why they continue to work.
These are gems in the rough. This is the basis for the Podping notification system we're using to signal rss feed updates and going live for livestreaming podcasts.
How does it compare to rssCloud?
https://github.com/scripting/reallysimple/blob/main/demos/clouddemo/readme.md
@davew Podping replaces WebSub with something that doesn't rely on Google or SuperFeedr i.e. it doesn't rely on big tech.
It is trivial to "watch" the stream of podpings by watching the blocks on the public Hive blockchain and via multiple redundant public API servers or running your own "node" of Hive can be done for <$50 per month but this isn't necessary.
From this river of podpings you can take action and rescan any RSS feed you're interested in.
Hosting co's send the signals out.
You didn’t answer my question.
@davew I can't understand how rssCloud is supposed to be run and by whom? Is it needed to be run by every rss feed host and how does it give a single place to look for updates to all rss feeds? If each host runs that service do I have to look somewhere for a list of such servers to check?
I'm just not sure what rssCloud does from those docs but I could be missing something.
Read the docs and the code, and ask for help if you need it.
Reinventing existing protocols isn’t something to be proud of.
I’m going to mute you so no point responding.
. @davew protocol is 1/5 of the problem.
4/5ths is the business model to keep the servers running.
This is what dinosaurs like you missed in the early days and why you watched helplessly as most open systems were captured by surveillance capitalism and Web 2.0.
The answer of pointing someone at server software and telling them to RTFM is EXACTLY why you're an angry man shouting at Google instead of actually doing something about it.
@davew one huge advantage of Podping is that it doesn't even need a tag or any change to an rss feed. It is just one step once at the time of publishing to send a GET request and globally anyone can see all these updates.
It's trivial to implement for hosts.
Steve@brianoflondon Seems you rubbed him up the wrong way. Maybe as you grow the service he will get it.
Ash@davew What will end, google being invisible or the press? Only sort of joking...
Bob JonkmanYou can't trust any service or application that requires an API key or activation key. Those keys exist for only one purpose, to revoke access. Or to extort you into paying for what used to be a free-to-use service or app.
Never base your business model on a service or app for which you don't have a service contract or source code.
Gord@davew Are the press perhaps busy covering Alphabet, the owners of Google? Accuracy matters for credibility.
Joshix@davew Google is powering the press. Many news outlets rely on Google.
On my phone I use Adguard to block google.com and sub-domains, I can't even read news on www.der-postillon.com anymore as it is powered by Google.
On my phone I use Adguard to block google.com and sub-domains, I can't even read news on www.der-postillon.com anymore as it is powered by Google.
John Infante@davew They owned RSS to a similar if not greater extent, and then like got bored with it. I wonder what it would look like if Google had though “we captured this open standard, let’s leverage the heck out of it” rather than “RS-what? We’re still paying money to run Google Reader? Pull the plug.”
Moritz Dietz@davew You know what’s funny? This is also true for corporations buying the rights to ground water springs, only to bottle them up and sell them.
@moritzdietz -- so true!