Another thing to remember about the #OGL is how I think it was shaped by two events of the '90s.

First was the start of Wizards of the Coast. The Primal Order, their first product, resulted in a lawsuit from Palladium Games because they included conversion appendixes for a variety of RPG systems. (TPO was a "capsystem" product meant to be added on your game of choice.) This is exactly the sort of thing that people are now claiming is obviously fair use. It was not so obvious, Wizards well knew!

The threat was so grave and existential that a new corporation, Garfield Games, was formed just to publish Magic: The Gathering, so that it could get investment that would not be threatened by the possibility of the whole company being destroyed by the Primal Order litigation.

After the TPO suit was settled out of court, Garfield Games was merged into Wizards of the Coast. The people who ran WotC in 2000, such as Peter Adkison, know personally how much water the "this is fair use!" argument

held in actual pragmatic fact for a publisher. All it took was one game company to decide they disagreed that it was fair and were willing to file suit over it.

The second event was the near bankruptcy of TSR. Again, key people (such as Ryan Dancey) involved in rescuing D&D from the implosion of TSR by facilitating its sale to WotC, had that experience to inform the creation of the OGL. It was not impossible to imagine D&D being owned by some corporate entity that did not care about it;

or that failed, leaving its intellectual property assets in limbo. Remember we're talking about the time frame of the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act. Anything entering the public domain had been kicked down the road by decades, and plenty of folks figured Disney would just kick it down again when the time came. All kinds of 20th century works were orphans -- their copyrights had been automatically extended for decades, but it was not clear who owned them if a creator had died, or

business owning work for hire had unwound, or no one had saved a paper trail of rights ownership/transfer. (Can you tell if it's work for hire?) As with fair use and game rules, there was a big difference between theorizing about the legal status of some work and putting your financial well being on the line by seeing if anyone will step forward and assert a right to sue you about it.

The OGL was a way to ensure that core RPG mechanics of D&D would be available to future generations --

regardless of whether they already are via fair use (yet to be tested in court), and regardless of what may be the future ownership of related copyrights. Stop the uncertainty.

Make games. Create things. Share them. Know that when you are hit by a bus, your asshole cousin who inherits your copyright will not have grounds to sue the guy who added your novel Prestige Class to his game world for sale as a PDF on DTRPG.

Our industry could not get congress to rewrite copyright law to suit our needs, the way Disney etc. could. The OGL (and other similar licenses that people started using) was a way to do it ourselves by mutual agreement.
(Speaking of which, the OGL and d20 coincided with the rise of digital publishing and online sharing of RPG material, so suddenly the field of potential publishers was orders of magnitude larger in 2000 than it was in 1990. Questions that were arcane in the 80s and early 90s were now urgent.)
@Johnnephew Remember in the 1990s when TSR decided that anything posted online about RPGs was piracy of their material and sent legal threats to people posting ANYTHING about TTRPGs on websites or usenet even if it wasn't D&D?
@Abstruse To be honest, it was a time of wild confusion, and we were all kind of trying to figure out or make up the rules as we went along!
@Johnnephew My recollection as a gamer and a techie--not a producer--was of This New Internet Thing making fanfiction and self-publishing huge in a way that it never had been before. There were stories flying everywhere of TSR suing anyone even mentioning their characters in a story, just like the RIAA was suing music fans left and right over Napster shares. That sense of "it's suddenly scary to be a fan" is hard to explain to folks who didn't experience the late 90s first hand.

@epilanthanomai

Exactly. There were nightmarish stories in the media about mothers sued into poverty because their tween kids were downloading MP3s on the household PC.

@Johnnephew I’m not an expert. Is there any good reason why the OGL needs to be changed? It (to my untrained eye) seems like nothing more than a short sighted money grab.
@fuzzface I think that Wizards/Hasbro want something fundamentally different from what the OGL offers. I also think they are looking at their forward plans (VTT and such) much more than past publications. Were I in their shoes, I would start from scratch with a new license. Maybe they can offer sufficiently attrative terms, but I'm skeptical that they can see the scale of creative output that the OGL empowered.
@fuzzface @Johnnephew I think it contains some sensible changes. E.g. Limiting the ability of people to make video games makes sense given their business strategy and given it was always intended to be a license to support written gaming content, not parallel products.
@thedicemechanic @fuzzface From their business perspective, I agree the original license leaves much to be desired. And to be honest, separately, it would be good if a 1.0b could be issued to update language with the evolution of open source licensing and case law over the last 23 years.
@thedicemechanic @fuzzface @Johnnephew The OGL leads to a creative explosion that boosts the written brand to unprecedented levels, but it now makes sense to restrict other media like VTTs, digital assets, computer games, and video? Surely that's a lesson unlearnt.
@Miyagiyoda @fuzzface @Johnnephew I think there's a huge difference between unleashing a community of small creators and allowing video game producers to generate millions off your IP. Tho in the case of VTTs, I'm definitely with you.
@thedicemechanic @fuzzface @Johnnephew
Ryan Dancey's original intent and opinion on the #ogl fiasco.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vz9ogq7JTg
One of the Architects of the Original OGL, Ryan Dancey, Discusses Its Creation | Roll For Combat

Back in the year 2000 the original Open Gaming License (OGL) was created to support the 3rd edition of Dungeons & Dragons and has gone on to help create hund...

YouTube
@fuzzface At the very least, 1.0b could be exactly the same but with the word irrevocable in it, and a clear statement that new versions don't unauthorize previous versions.
@fuzzface @Johnnephew It is definitely a money grab. They're remarkably honest about that. And most people agree it's also short-sighted.

A necessary update in the spirit of the original OGL, would have been to make it irrevocable. But that's clearly not what BigCorp wants.
@fuzzface @Johnnephew It needs to be changed for the same reason as needed to be changed since it was created, but that's not the change that WOTC is heading an open license really needs to have an irrevocable term in it and the subset did not
@MichaelPhillips @fuzzface It does seem that this has been learned by experience and through legal precedents in the Open License field in the last 20 years, during which OGL1a has remained unchanged.
@Johnnephew @fuzzface to be fair, I'm pretty sure that CC 1.0 included that term, which was one year after the OGL. But I would have to go find an old copy to be absolutely certain about that
@MichaelPhillips @fuzzface I looked it up. The CC1.0 from December 2002 does NOT contain the term "irrevocable." Someone else said it didn't appear in CC until 2013 but I have not confirmed.

@MichaelPhillips @fuzzface

cc-a 1.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/1.0/legalcode)

" Licensor hereby grants You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual (for the duration of the applicable copyright) license"

OGL 1.0a (https://opengamingfoundation.org/ogl.html)

"the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license"

EXACTLY the same four terms:

-Perpetual
-Worldwide
-Non-exclusive
-Royalty Free

Creative Commons Legal Code

@Johnnephew
The OGL was a way to ensure that core RPG mechanics of D&D would be available to future generations -- regardless of whether they already are via fair use (yet to be tested in court), and regardless of what may be the future ownership of related copyrights. Stop the uncertainty.

But if @pluralistic is correct, then it didn't accomplish any of that, because it's still revocable. And it may have trapped companies into giving up some of their fair use rights.

@mcv @pluralistic

I disagree that it is revocable, and I don't think any rights are given up because the SRD contains zero product identity. Product identity designation is a carrot to encourage publishers to use the OGL without fearing that they were giving up their original content.

So why do it? Peace of mind. Safe harbor. And a way to pass it forward by designating OGC that others in turn can use.

@Johnnephew From what I understand, you can refer to product identity as part of fair use, but not as part of OGL.

And whatever any of us think about what's legal or not, and whether it's revocable, is ultimately irrelevant. That's up to lawyers, and most importantly, a judge. Without a statement by a judge, this is always going to be a grey area where nobody knows what they can and can't do.

@mcv But you have to DESIGNATE product identity, to identify specific things inside your Open Game Content that you reserve as proprietary.

So I might say: This game description & stats for Mickey Mouse is Open Game Content. The name "Mickey Mouse" is Product Identity.

Then it is clear that I can rename that character to be Rodney Rodent and put him in my world, but I can't use Mickey Mouse without getting a license.

Could I make Mickey Mouse a character in my game world under fair use?

@mcv Maybe I could. I am pretty sure I would get a letter from Disney lawyers about infringing their trademark, even if I strengthened my case by making his role one of satire or commentary or something that has better Fair Use argument than "I wanted to have a big-eared guy with a squeaky voice for the PC murder hobos to mug."

@mcv "And whatever any of us think about what's legal or not, and whether it's revocable, is ultimately irrelevant."

It's not though, because I am a publisher and I am making decisions of what risks to accept in my business. I am comfortable on the risk of publishing material derivative of clearly labeled Open Game Content. I have decided NOT to publish things that I think are 100% legit Fair Use because I felt the odds of being sued by a known vexatious litigant outweigh the likely profits.

@mcv It remains a gray area even if lawyers and a judge are involved in another case. Decisions are appealed. The facts of no two cases are ever exactly the same. There is always a risk, and a question of how comfortable you are with the risk-reward with each decision you make.
@Johnnephew Wel yes, what you believe is relevant to your business decisions of course, but you, I or Cory don't get to decide what's actually legal or not. Only what risks we want to take.

So having this tested in court would make that situation a lot clearer for everybody.
@mcv Yes but...only really for that specific case, unfortunately.
@Johnnephew
Not just for the specific case though - each case sets legal precedent that should be binding to that court and courts under it barring a contradictory ruling by a higher court or a change in the law. So any similar case would gain the hurdle of proving it is substantially different than the prior decided case before it could argue for a different outcome. Note: US law as best as I understand it, and I am not a lawyer, but have an interest in the law.
@mcv
@velinion @mcv In many of the cases I've read, I keep finding that various findings of law are made (such as in the case of Wind Done Gone or the Star Trek/Seuss mashup) but then the case is thrown to a lower court for a determination of fact that hinges upon "is this specific percentage of re-used material fair use in this specific situation?" and then the parties, who have already gone to court and appeals for years over procedural matters, end up settling without trial.
@velinion @mcv The general principle I extrapolate is that if you can go straight to the "hey let's work out a deal" point without spending years and $millions in litigation in almost anything gray under copyright law, you should just do that right right away. Hence the #ogl
@Johnnephew @mcv yes, if you settle out of court both sides usually save money, and avoid setting precedent. In the case of WotC / OGL 1.1, Hasbro would be incentivised to stall or settle as they have a lot to lose precedent-wise. The court could rule that most of what was covered by the OGL was purely systems and therefore not subject to copyright. It could rule that OGL 1.0a cannot be revoked. At best it rules it can, but fear of lawsuits gets Hasbro much of the same benefit.
@Johnnephew Good question. @pluralistic's analysis suggests you can, but I'm pretty sure I can't publish a book about Harry Potter. I suspect using characters and places would make it a derivative work. But where do you draw the line? I don't think it's really been drawn properly for RPG material.

@mcv @Johnnephew You can indeed publish a book about Harry Potter, but it depends on the book; see the material about "The Wind Done Gone" in this essay:

https://onezero.medium.com/crypto-copyright-bdf24f48bf99

Crypto + Copyright = 🤡💩 - OneZero

The world of crypto is full of scams, grifts, and absolutely foreseeable flops. The underlying ideology of crypto — the much-vaunted “system design” — starts from the principle that systems are most…

OneZero

@pluralistic @mcv

We have a "Mini Mythos" series that parody beloved children's books as retellings of Lovecraft classics (https://atlas-games.com/minimythos)

Ken Hite really wanted to write "And to Think that I Saw It in Unknown Kadath" as a mash up of Dream Quest+Mulberry St but we decided that the Seuss estate was too litigious. That was after the OJ/Seuss parody, but before the Star Trek mash-up (which validates our caution). https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/seuss-comicmix-close-book-landmark-copyright-dispute-over-star-trek-mashup-2021-10-05/

Mini Mythos Picture Books

A Lovecraft-inspired parody of classic children's literature.

Atlas Games

@pluralistic @mcv Obviously we firmly believe that the four parodies we have published constitute Fair Use.

However much I think we would be right if we published any Seuss parody, I am not going to, simply because I don't want to waste time and money proving the point by provoking known litigious assholes. We have no shortage of other things to do instead.

@pluralistic @mcv @Johnnephew It also depends on how much you can afford a lawyer.:)

@mcv @pluralistic RPGs and fan fiction are the blurry edge of gray areas in this sort of thing. The unofficial policy of most parties is to not watch closely and maintain studied ignorance of noncommercial potentially infringing things as much as possible.

The OGL really jumped in with both feet to say: let's drop the nudge-nudge, wink-wink, compatible with the world's favorite RPG, say no more, business, and just legalize it explicitly.

@mcv Something else maybe to clarify.

Nothing in the SRD was Product Identity. So if you were strictly deriving from the SRD, your chain of copyright only included (1) the OGL itself, (2) the SRD, (3) your Open Game Content.

The ONLY possible Product Identity involved is that which you yourself designate to guide downstream licensees. Anything that COULD be product identity and COULD be covered by Fair Use is NOT Open Game Content in your chain.

@mcv Follow-up: I was wrong. An OGL I have in my folder for the SRD 3.0 has no product identity, but the one with the SRD3.5 and SRD 5.0 both have a block of Product Identity delineated.
@mcv So yes, agreeing to the OGL meant giving up your fair use rights to reference those trademarks and proper names if you derive from the SRD3.5 or later.
@Johnnephew
All it took was one game company to decide they disagreed that it was fair and were willing to file suit over it.
That, and a judge to agree with them. Or a target that isn't confident enough to take it to court.

I think this is something that desperately needs to be tested in court, because nobody knows what is and isn't legal here, and everything gets decided by who has the biggest lawyer. (Or who can even afford a lawyer.)

@mcv

Keep in mind too that insurers would be involved, and are almost certainly going to pressure people to settle rather than risk the cost and uncertainty of going to trial.

Basically, anyone can sue anyone for any reason. Even a meritless suit that is thrown out and the court awards fees & expenses to the party wrongly sued, is a cost and disruption that people want to avoid if they can.

@Johnnephew @mcv It is not always wise to remove ambiguity, because the knife can cut the other way. That's assuming the challenger can get a crack legal team. Plus, the rights holder probably won't sue unless they think they can win: they choose the battleground.

"Bad facts make bad law."

That said, I'll repeat my idea balloon: what about an Open TTRPG Legal Defense Fund?

@Johnnephew part of that was that the near bankruptcy almost led to different pieces of the game being owned by different creditors

@Johnnephew absolutely, when Chaosium did "Thieves World", they sought permission from each company

When Mark Arsenault wanted conversions for Sengoku 1st ed,vhe asked the companies, and I did one of them for ours

@dampscot Likewise when, with permission, we included conversion notes to other game systems in the back of Over the Edge 1st Edition in 1992.
@Johnnephew The problem is it was obvious fair use then too but you have to have a lot of money to throw into the lawsuit to get that conclusion.