Anil@taylorlorenz the link previews thing is complicated because retrieving the data for them is decentralized, meaning each instance (and sometimes, each *app*!) is hitting the website for the preview info. It’s often been omitted because it can knock small websites offline just dealing with serving previews when a popular user shares a link.
@taylorlorenz As for QTs, let’s find you another fediverse tool that supports them; you can almost certainly import your followers there if it offers the features that mastodon won’t.
Dan Shick@anildash @taylorlorenz like Megalodon, as i mentioned elsewhere: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.joinmastodon.android.sk
Allan Chow@anildash wouldn't qt implementation be more a client side thing though?
Jason Green@grumpasaurus @anildash It could probably be implemented either client side or in a fediverse server. Client side might create fewer issues with compatibility.
Gabe Salkin@anildash @taylorlorenz you could argue that QTs has been a big part of the downfall of discourse on social media. Allows out of context dunking and amplification of outrage. Useful tool but idk, pluses and minuses
bettybarcode (she/her) 🚲@anildash @taylorlorenz
There's a QT work-around. Copy the link to the toot you want & paste it into yours.
There's a QT work-around. Copy the link to the toot you want & paste it into yours.
just adrienne@anildash @taylorlorenz the Treehouse fork of Mastodon is working on adding them, fwiw. Should be available soon, and it's easy for an instance admin to switch from vanilla (and even easier to switch from Glitch, bc we're actually a fork of Glitch).
Matt Blaze@taylorlorenz @anildash right. The way it’s implemented really doesn’t scale in a (growing) federated system. A more sensible approach would be to generate the preview at the poster’s instance.
ianhillmedia@mattblaze @taylorlorenz @anildash So it’s not perfect, but I can kinda replicate a QT in Toot by copying and pasting in the URL of the Toot https://mastodon.social/@taylorlorenz/109565436163660592
@taylorlorenz @anildash @ianhillmedia right. Different clients seem to show one of:
- just the link
- a full preview of the post
- a truncated preview
- a preview of the poster’s profile
- just the link
- a full preview of the post
- a truncated preview
- a preview of the poster’s profile
Scott@ianhillmedia that, like many things seem to vary by client
Natanael ⚠️@grumpasaurus @mattblaze @taylorlorenz @anildash going all the way to content addressed networking with IPFS, maybe
John Minnihanmaybe a cdn for fedi previews. like every link to a fedi site gets snapped + a rendered preview is pushed to an object store that fronts preview.fedi.org or whatever + that serves the preview in a CORS-happy iframe.
an edge function cld handle all this in abt 1/3 of a second
@jbminn @taylorlorenz tell me more about these CDNs and edge functions 😇
Jay Rosen@anildash I agree with Taylor about quote posts. Basic tool of press criticism for me.
Chief TWiT 
@jayrosen_nyu @anildash How about just replying to a post. Like this? I like the fact that Mastodon promotes conversation not amplification.
Eric DannewitzBut the press is all about "amplification". I think they need to reflect on how they do things.
Or they could COPY the link to the original post like this and add their commentary BEFORE it.....
https://federate.social/@profcarroll/109565590551369508
David Carroll (@[email protected])
Attached: 2 images Found it. Here’s the “add account” UX in the latest #Mammoth build. Note how a new user gets ramped onto moth.social and off they go. No “choose an instance” but rather sign-up here.
Adam A@leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash ^ this... The point of mastodon isn't for things to go viral. Almost the opposite, much more about a few meaningful connections than lots of meaningless ones
@leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash does it make Mastodon less appropriate for journalist? maybe? Doesn't really seem like that much of a hinderance unless most your reporting on other people's tweets, in which case, iunno, sucks for HuffPost? lol
The instance i'm on has a 11,000 character limit, it really isn't a big deal to literally paste the article into the toot, let alone link to it. I don't really think we need a lot of breathless reporting on who tweeted what, for the most part, that's like tabloid-adjacent quality news
Mel Campbell@adamaronoff @leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash I’m a journalist and I think it’s a massive mistake to treat Mastodon as a straight swap for Twitter and to demand Mastodon incorporate all Twitter’s affordances so it can be used in the same way.
I am enjoying the challenge of talking about my work in a different way than before. I have recognised my impulse to quote is an impulse to take control of a discussion and shape it to my own ends, and how defensive that impulse often is.
I’m also recognising how much I had invested in the idea of being an opinion leader whose voice is passively listened to.
But I am enjoying having more back-and-forth conversations here. I feel less pressure to be performative and I don’t think Mastodon is a self-promotional platform
@incrediblemelk @leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash exactly...quote tweeting has places where it's helpful, but the majority of the time, it encourages bad/toxic/performative behavior - I can't remember the last time I QT someone and it wasn't to try and dunk on them. This conversation would be impossible to have on twitter - beyond the character limit, it would be infested with people trying to 'score internet points' with hot takes and QTs
Gabrielle Gueron@incrediblemelk @adamaronoff @leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash
In my case, would like boost posts of people on servers where CW is not a requisite without changing my instance.
So far I’ve settled for answering and using CW while doing so. I have no idea if posting a link to a post is something that is even detected by the OP.
@gabigueron @adamaronoff @leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash as I understand it, if you link to a post here by someone on a small server, your well-meant link could overwhelm the server in a DDoS-like way.
Maybe just the old-school original Twitter format:
QT @gabigueron ” In my case, would like boost posts of people on servers where CW is not a requisite without changing my instance.
So far I’ve settled for answering and using CW while doing so. I have no idea if posting a link to a post is something that is even detected by the OP.”
@adamaronoff @leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash also, journalism as a discipline could stand to be much more reflective about the often very transactional way it uses other people’s ideas.
Some problematic practices that journalism has just got used to include inviting people to the platform (print media, radio, TV, online), to share their professional knowledge or their personal and even traumatic stories as “content”, but not to take much care with how the journalist’s own audience then respond to the interviewees or guests or contributors.
To journalists (and to other ‘professional’ media users eg comedians, politicians, celebrities – people who use the platform self-promotionally), being the quoted person is a net positive because you’re showing your relevance and impact. So they assume that anyone will be happy to be quoted. I really don’t think they feel a ‘dunk’ the same way as a non-professional who hasn’t made that devil’s bargain with social media
@incrediblemelk @leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash that makes a lot of sense, though the ratio of media users to non-media users is pretty lopsided. But the cool thing about Mastodon is that it's a flexible system, and i'm already seeing news/journalist-specifics instances coming online. It's not hard to envision a future where there is a customized version more tailored for journalist, and then either major publications or some sort of consortium of them, running an instance just for journalist.
@jayrosen_nyu @leo @adamaronoff @anildash
I value that Mastodon wasn’t conceived for virality.
OTOH, one of the needs the bird site satisfied was propagating real time news and promoting urgent actions. This helped both journalists and underserved communities.
@gabigueron @jayrosen_nyu @leo @anildash its about having the right (digital) tool for the job. I liken Mastodon to being much more like my work's water cooler slack than it is like Twitter
Daniel Rubino@daniel_rubino @jayrosen_nyu @anildash
I think we all need to stop being twitterpated with the bird site's way of doing things.
I knew some day I'd get to use the word "twitterpated."
bss, super genius@leo @daniel_rubino @jayrosen_nyu @anildash it seems that the QT request often comes from users who haven't yet bothered to:
1) acclimate themselves to what the network, largely, prefers (sincerity and conversation),
2) how the timelines work, or
3) both
1) acclimate themselves to what the network, largely, prefers (sincerity and conversation),
2) how the timelines work, or
3) both
@bss @anildash @jayrosen_nyu @leo Yeah, I agree, there's a reflexivity that people need to wean off of for a bit. There was a time Twitter didn't have QT, either, aka the more fun days.
Jim NaureckasPeople have explained at length why they feel quote tweets fill needs that replies do not. This does not seem to be something OG Mastodon is interested in understanding.
leon@jayrosen_nyu @Naureckas @leo @anildash from what I’ve heard the devs are open to adding it, more of a user culture thing really
Dan GillmorRe this ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️
from @leo
When I absolutely positively want to do the equivalent of QT, this is my workaround. Most of the time I just boost and then reply if I feel a need to join the conversation.
This order -- the original first followed by my two cents, rather than encapsulating what I'm discussing inside my words -- feels more appropriate in any case.
@dangillmor @jayrosen_nyu @anildash @taylorlorenz
Works for me!
@dangillmor @jayrosen_nyu @anildash @taylorlorenz
Honestly this conversation saddens me. We have a perfectly lovely, calm, interesting space for conversation here.
If you're jonesing for your Twitter endorphine hit, there must be somewhere else you can go. I hear Hive is pretty hot.
To paraphrase Chris Crocker,
"Leave Mastodon alone!"
Or stick around. Take a deep breath and relax.You might actually like the place.
Dwight Silverman@leo @dangillmor @jayrosen_nyu @anildash @taylorlorenz
Or to paraphrase Ned Lud: "Change is bad!"
@leo @dangillmor @jayrosen_nyu @anildash @taylorlorenz I was heartened by @Gargron saying his feelings about quote-tweet weren't set in stone. Sounds like he can be persuaded.
Quote tweet is a way to add ideas upon ideas. It's worth doing here; the pros outweigh the cons.
@taylorlorenz @dangillmor @anildash @leo @jayrosen_nyu ngl this is incredibly condescending and not the kind of attitude I as a longtime mastodon user feel comfortable representing our platform
Joseph Zitt@dangillmor This might be a quibble, but ... since most of us (I think) use a default reverse-history timeline view, your method of boosting then replying would mean that we see the reply before the boost. It might be counter-intuitive, but I'm guessing that if you want us to read the original post first, it would be better to reply *before* boosting.
@leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash @taylorlorenz
@leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash @taylorlorenz
@leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash Mastodon needs to promote BOTH conversation and amplification. It can be done.
Simon Ringsmuth@leo @jayrosen_nyu @anildash Promoting conversation, not amplification. Interesting. I like that angle.
Steven L. Johnson@jayrosen_nyu @anildash As a non-press user, I find QT useful to contextualize content I want to amplify in a way that it is appealing to my followers. I don't know of any simple way to accomplish that for "Toots"
jocanib@steven @jayrosen_nyu @anildash
Screenshots.
BurningSkies@steven @jayrosen_nyu @anildash doesn't seem to be one besides screenshot & share. I too miss that feature.
Max Riethmuller (TechLife)@steven @jayrosen_nyu @anildash I agree with this, the argument here on Mastodon seems to be that QT is used as a way to bully or make fun of people rather than directly engage. But that's definitely not the way I use QT
Stefano Pacifico 🧬 🇺🇦@techlife @steven @jayrosen_nyu @anildash I still can’t figure out what actual grounding that argument has.
@stefpac @steven @jayrosen_nyu @anildash I think the idea is that people often quote retweet to disparage the original tweeter. But personally I see it used far more often simply to add commentary to an idea you want to also amplify. It's new to me though I only came across this view of QT once I started here.
T.J. CrowderI think the core of it is here and in the linked blog post by the original author of Mastodon:
https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/309#issuecomment-469260847
@tjcrowdertech thanks TJ, this is helpful!
I just remain agnostic to whether this is just a subjective hypothesis vs a provable phenomenon (the one by which quoting content is a net negative). While I respect the opinion and more importantly the hard work behind it, and also understand “better safe than sorry”, I still think the UX is worse without it and it’s a barrier to adoption.
Chris Coleman@steven @jayrosen_nyu @anildash The better clients have link previews. The official client is bare-bones at best.
So many people are worried about abuse via quoting and don't want it implemented. A simple "don't allow quotes" setting could solve that.
Mark Karabajakian@mkarab @steven @jayrosen_nyu @anildash My favorite is Mammoth on iOS. It's in beta but really nicely done. Ivory is also an amazing client in beta, but slots are very limited. Follow @JPEGuin or @ivory to find out when test slots open up. Mammoth is updated daily, and progress is rapid.
If you can't get into a beta yet, I recommend Metatext
For a very nice web client, especially if you miss Twitter's web interface, check out https://elk.zone.
@mkarab @steven @jayrosen_nyu @anildash I'm only starting to explore Android clients, but Tusky and Megalodon seem to be the best.