Andrew Prince Dec 22, 2022
Rand Fishkin

NEW post: https://sparktoro.com/blog/should-you-raise-your-rates-and-only-take-paid-speaking-gigs-not-so-fast/

Alongside coauthors @amandanat and @wilreynolds, we tackled the problematic but oft-given advice in the consulting & speaking worlds:

"Raise your rates!"
"Never speak for free!"

We mostly disagree.

Should You Raise Your Rates and Only Take Paid Speaking Gigs? Not So Fast… - SparkToro

Over on Mastodon, SparkToro CEO Rand Fishkin and Seer Interactive CEO Wil Reynolds were chatting about the blind advice of "Raise your rates!" and "Don't

SparkToro
Dec 22, 2022 at 8:33amWeb
Show threadSatya MishraDec 22, 2022
@randfish @amandanat @wilreynolds Is there such a thing as Veblen Service? If you’re in such a space, may be raise rates? For example, if I see a freelancer charging $20/hr and they live in U.S., I’m left wondering if they’re any good.
Show threadRand FishkinDec 22, 2022
@satya @amandanat @wilreynolds absolutely. Market pricing is important, and I wouldn't encourage anyone to undercharge.
Show threadAndrew FraineDec 22, 2022

@randfish @amandanat @wilreynolds Great summary of this topic.

I think it applies to startups and agencies as well when it comes to getting off the ground. The value of those early users/projects extends beyond the revenue you get from them. Your primary objective should be doing the work in exchange for testimonials and referrals rather than revenue.

Of course, it's great to get that first case study + revenue, but you might shorten the sales cycle a bit if you just do it for free.

Show threadWil ReynoldsDec 22, 2022

@Fraine @randfish @amandanat thanks and also sometimes you just really like a client and want to help them. I think somewhere along this business path, too many of us have these rigid rules and boundaries.

Now one thing I have learned, good clients will refer you if you do good work, bad clients (for me) will promise to refer you if you give them a discount on their project first. Those folks never referred good clients, if any at all.

Show threadWil ReynoldsDec 22, 2022
@randfish @amandanat thanks for letting me tag along
Show threadAndi JarvisDec 22, 2022
@randfish @amandanat @wilreynolds my main gripe about speaking for free is that everyone else involved in the event is getting paid, but not the content provided from stage. It just seems weird. Venue? Paid. AV? Paid. Security (if it’s a big enough event)? Paid. Bar staff? Paid. Event organiser? Paid. Speakers… ah, we don’t have budget for that. Really… or you don’t want to spend your budget on that?
Show threadRand FishkinDec 22, 2022
@andijarvis I hear you! I'm hoping this blog post helps explain why that happens, i.e. AV, security, bar staff don't get value from volunteering to do their jobs, and wouldn't offer to do it for free in exchange for the stage time, but many speakers do. @amandanat @wilreynolds
Show threadAndi JarvisDec 22, 2022
@randfish @amandanat @wilreynolds absolutely. And I do most of my events for free. But I feel the value proposition is the wrong way round. The bar tenders don’t get value for doing their job for free, but the audience would be fine without them. The value comes from the venue, the av, the speakers and the host… all of them get paid except 1. Just seems weird.
To be clear, I’d probably turn down 90% of payment offers! Just strange they don’t come
Show threadAmanda NatividadDec 22, 2022

@andijarvis @randfish @wilreynolds I see your point (and appreciate the discussion here!) but it’s faulty to compare paid AV & hospitality workers to free speakers.

Speakers benefit from PR, content mktg, lead gen, networking. AV/hospitality do not get any of these benefits. They also have to spend $ to do their job. (Bartender has to buy alcohol & mixers.)

And if a speaker doesn’t think there are any mktg benefits to a given event, they shouldn’t speak there.

Show threadRand FishkinDec 22, 2022

@amandanat @andijarvis @wilreynolds I'd also say it's not about whether an individual speaker gets value, but a supply and demand thing.

E.G. TikTok doesn't have to recruit/pay content creators. Millions will happily pour countless unpaid hours into content creation for TikTok in the hopes of getting exposure/reach.

Is it ethical that newspapers didn't pay for editorials in the 20th Century? Or that journalists don't pay their interview sources? IDK. But that's how exposure-giving fields work.

Show threadIsaac Watson Dec 22, 2022
@randfish @amandanat @wilreynolds This is great! AND as an event producer who knows that speakers are the crux of the experience, I will always advocate that a client pays their speakers.
Show threadSamuel ScottDec 23, 2022

@randfish @amandanat @wilreynolds

The speeches of speakers who speak for free are advertisements for something.

The speeches of speakers who get paid to speak are the products themselves.

Show threadRand FishkinDec 23, 2022

@samueljscott @amandanat @wilreynolds That sounds true, but isn't. When I get offered to be paid these days, my messages are no more or less promotional for my company/self than they were when I spoke for free. Same with Wil and Amanda.

Speak for free and earn a great reputation, and eventually you'll get offered paid gigs, too.

Show threadWil ReynoldsDec 23, 2022

@randfish @samueljscott @amandanat Rand you are so much more eloquent than I.

I was thinking

Show threadAmanda NatividadDec 25, 2022

@samueljscott @randfish @wilreynolds I wonder if we’re comparing apples and oranges here.

Is your perspective coming from professional public speaking — like, people who hone public speaking as a craft and pitch themselves as keynotes keynoting about meaningful problems vs tactical solutions?

Show threadSamuel ScottDec 26, 2022

@amandanat @randfish @wilreynolds

Yes, exactly. I'm talking about doing keynotes and charging for them as products.

Otherwise, speaking for free for the exposure to grow a business somehow is little more than delivering an advertisement from a stage.

Show threadSamuel ScottDec 26, 2022

@amandanat @randfish @wilreynolds

Another point: Should caterers, venues, A/V teams, event staff, security people, and cleaners all work for free for the "exposure" too?

Show threadRand FishkinDec 26, 2022

@samueljscott @amandanat @wilreynolds if they received the same value Wil, Amanda, and I did (along with countless others in similar types of professions), sure.

But they don't. Hence, this is a false dichotomy.

I might recommend this list of logical fallacies https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/. Both arguments you put forward so far fall under these categories.

There are reasonable points in favor of paying speakers, but these are not they.

15 Logical Fallacies You Should Know Before Getting Into A Debate

There are 15 common logical fallacies you should know before getting into a college debate.

TheBestSchools.org
Show threadSamuel ScottDec 26, 2022

@randfish @amandanat @wilreynolds

My point is that not everyone wants to use speaking as a way to sell books, get customers, or gain clients.

Many people do that as the job in and of itself.