ericklineDec 22, 2022
Mike Masnick ✅
I wrote about how I cannot understand why anyone is interested in joining a new centralized social media platform when we now have a great opportunity to move to protocols instead of platforms. https://www.techdirt.com/2022/12/21/why-would-anyone-use-another-centralized-social-media-service-after-this/
Why Would Anyone Use Another Centralized Social Media Service After This?

So, it’s been quite a year for legacy, centralized social media — and all without any really big change to the laws that govern it (yet — the EU’s are coming into force shortly, but pos…

Techdirt
Dec 21, 2022 at 8:40pmWeb
Show threadOfficer-involved poopingDec 21, 2022

@mmasnick I firmly believe the answer is in the acculturation that massive platforms have fostered. Many people join services not to slowly and carefully cultivate a highly relevant and informative content stream - they want a quickly assembled deluge of distracting and emotionally engaging crap. The blog and RSS paradigm is not the dominant platform.

To that end IMHO, for mastodon or similar to challenge the big players, discovery needs to be optimized in ways we haven't seen before.

Show threadOfficer-involved poopingDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick *if* big players enter the federated space, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an attempt to use niche focus as an anchor. E.g. not a "Google" instance, but an instance focused on fandom, programming, photography, etc.. not unlike the stackexchange model.
Show threadKenobitDec 21, 2022
@AKPAB @mmasnick I think taking back the discovery of content is crucial and I don't think it's an impossible cultural battle, seeing how many people are realizing the damage of instagram/tiktok feeds.
Show threadMero DavisDec 22, 2022

@kenobit @AKPAB @mmasnick but better discovery would mean algorithmic recommendations, something that Mastodon doesn't do

From mastodon.help:

> On every timeline the posts are shown in chronological order. This means that no algorythm, number of stars or other factors will influence the number of times you will see a post. A post can be boosted (“retweeted”) but that’s it.

Show threadKenobitDec 22, 2022

@ormax3 @AKPAB @mmasnick

I really think this is a crucial feature and that it's perfect as it is.

No factors influencing the numer of times you see a post = No gamification, no reaction baiting

Show threadOfficer-involved poopingDec 22, 2022

@ormax3 I think "better discovery" can mean a lot more than algorithms. Follow fridays were a discovery tool, as are the current massive follow lists I'm seeing some places. Given the open API nature of mastodon, it means there's opportunities for people to make outside tools as well, that can function however their creator or community desires.

I only mentioned this because I do think that it can feel lonely and dry joining mastodon, if you don't have any reference points.

Show threadMatunosDec 22, 2022

@AKPAB @mmasnick I don't think people join services to get a deluge of distracting and emotionally engaging crap per se. I think they join due to network effects.

Once they're there, the commercial platforms have an interest to monopolize their users' attention, and that's where the emotionally engaging crap comes in, and all the efforts to push it at people via the algorithms, and keep their attention so they can also shove ads at them whilst collecting as much private data as they can.

Show threadMatunosDec 22, 2022
@AKPAB @mmasnick Open source federated networks have an advantage there in that they don't need to monopolize their users' attention to be successful, but to grow they do need to get and maintain a critical mass for the network effect to become an asset rather than an obstacle.
Show threadMatunosDec 22, 2022
@AKPAB @mmasnick To that end, I agree with you that discovery is a big factor— specifically how can users (especially new users) find the sorts of content they're looking for to feel like they can build themselves a useful social network— whether that is distracting and fun crap, breaking news, yelling at politicians, or in-depth discussions about shared interests
Show threadGeorge William HerbertDec 22, 2022
@matunos @AKPAB @mmasnick In the current instance, Twitter refugees using the transition accounts followed finders tools is a lot of findability for existing intentional social connections. But new tools on top of existing Mastodon protocols may be needed…
Show threadJohn Philpin Ⓜ️Dec 21, 2022
@ESC #esc
Show threadGiraffe Slava 🇺🇸🇺🇦Dec 21, 2022
@mmasnick uh, we also still need to reform and enforce anti trust laws :)
Show threadSidusNareDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick Elon's Twitter full send hit so hard it's changed social media forever.
Show threadPeoriaBummerDec 21, 2022
@sidusnare @mmasnick Mastodon is the mammals. Twitter is the dinosaurs. Musk is the asteroid.
Show threadWeltzeitgeistDec 22, 2022
@PeoriaBummer @sidusnare @mmasnick Look Up!
Show threadCleo of Topless TopicsDec 22, 2022

@PeoriaBummer *slow clap*

@sidusnare @mmasnick

Show threadTruxnellDec 22, 2022
@PeoriaBummer
I hope so, but I'm really unsure I can see the masses getting their heads around federation
@sidusnare @mmasnick
Show threadKansas GrantDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick Maybe it's related to why children like Lunchables.
Show threadBernd PorrDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick Sort of history repeats. 10 years ago when Facebook was the dominant platform then something called "twitter" suddenly entered the scene. Then a lot of people didn't "get" twitter because it connects strangers according to interest and allows scrutiny being totally open. It has become the prime platform for connecting journos to experts. Now #mastodon is perfectly capable to fill this space. Again it will be around not for the masses but for the people shaping discourse.
Show threadMike Stevens Dec 21, 2022
@mmasnick why do normal people do any number of ultimately detrimental things? It's usually just about convenience and familiarity, right? And doing what the majority of their friends are doing, avoiding a new learning curve and new habit formation no matter how much it might improve life in the long run, etc. (You probably cover that in the story, I'll read it in a bit!)
Show threadMichaelDec 21, 2022

@mmasnick personally still expect that re-centralisation will ultimately occur, as it did with email, which is now dominated by a small number of big players, with self hosting almost impossible these days.

I did find these arguments quite compelling:

https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2022/11/14/scaling-mastodon/

Hoping I’m wrong though.

Scaling Mastodon is Impossible

Now that Twitter is dying, what can replace it?

Show threadAnathema DeviceDec 21, 2022

@michael @mmasnick "self hosting almost impossible"

That's just not true. There are literally thousands of hosting companies, and almost all of them allow you to have your own email addresses, servers, the lot. The fact that most people don't bother, doesn't mean it's not possible or easy to do.

Show threadMichaelDec 21, 2022

@anathema_device @mmasnick lol. I used to self host. Sadly deliverability was an ongoing problem, so now I just pay one of the bigger players.

Of course it’s technically possible to self host email. It’s not even difficult. But it’s a constant battle to ensure your recipients actually receive your emails, and more often than not emails just disappear without trace, rhyme, or reason.

Show threadAlexander The 1stDec 21, 2022
@michael @anathema_device @mmasnick Right; scalability is why, instead of people managing their own physical servers, whole companies just offload the work to AWS or Azure. At some point, you don't farm your own silicon for transistors, you let someone else do that.
Show threadPekka LundDec 22, 2022

@michael @mmasnick
Good points and there are further issues for Mastodon to become true alternative for Twitter.

Lack of proper search of content, even on the protocol level, is one big problem. It more or less eliminates most of the use cases I use Twitter for.

It would be pretty hard to implement now so that it would scale and work with federation with minimal delays that Twitter provides.

Also it's just big waste of collaborative effort if all content produced here isn't searchable later.

Show threadMichaelDec 22, 2022
@pekka @mmasnick I don’t know. I think the lack of search makes mastodon much more conversational in nature. Which is a good thing.
Show threadPekka LundDec 22, 2022

@michael @mmasnick
It just means even that use case is missing essential functionality.

Having search doesn't force to use it, it doesn't take anything away. I can have just the same kind of conversations on Twitter but there I and others are able to find it later by remembering what others said or by using keywords of interest.

Here conversations do not really contribute to the extremely useful shared knowledge base searchable web is.

Show threadMike Masnick ✅Dec 22, 2022
@michael i'm not sure I see that as quite as big a problem. This is the nice bit of the federated model. The fact that *SOME* can create their own instances, or that if a "centralized" instance decides to do evil stuff, it's much easier to leave... creates a pretty good incentive structure. A centralized player comes in and makes it easy for end users who don't want complexity, but the rest keeps them from acting as an evil for the network.
Show threadMichaelDec 22, 2022

@mmasnick the problem is that that only works as long as ‘the rest’ is influential enough.

Once a big player controls a large enough percentage, I don’t think they’ll care about ‘the rest’

Show threadMike Masnick ✅Dec 22, 2022
@michael we've seen it with Google and Gmail. The ability for people to leave has kept Google as a relatively "friendly" player in the space when it could have gone evil with Gmail (as it's done with other products).
Show threadMichaelDec 22, 2022

@mmasnick interestingly I feel the very opposite: it’s google and Microsoft’s insistence on filtering a large percentage of email from self hosters into spam, that makes self hosting email very difficult (not self hosting itself being difficult, but getting my self hosted emails into gmail and MS’s inbox is).

So to me it feels that the situation we’ve ended up in with regards to Google and Gmail is exactly what I’m afraid of happening with mastodon.

Show threadBarry PageDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick this could become Google's moment - connect gmail's chat to the fediverse
Show threadnotthatkarenDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick It seems that many of the holdouts are ones that feel tied monetarily or by ego (lg following) to the bird app-also the one gravitating to places like Post. Completely missing that the problems caused by putting all your eggs in one basket are not solved by just putting all your eggs in different basket. ION- I saw my first rage farming/clickbait *toot* yesterday. Muted/blocked and smiled widely knowing there was no algorithm here to reward/amplify that. I like that.
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 21, 2022
@mmasnick Iʼd love to have our own instance since we pay for a server, but computers have become much harder to use in the last 15 years (at least to me as a layman). I used to know how to install stuff on a server but now itʼs more command-line where it looks like you need a degree in computer science! Not sure if Iʼm typical, but this may be why some of us went to a big Mastodon instance.
Show threadAnathema DeviceDec 21, 2022
@jackyan @mmasnick I suspect that ways to install Mastodon on a self-hosted instance will become easier, same as Wordpress made it easier to set up your own blog. The need is there, someone will fill it.
Show threadJack Yan (甄爵恩)Dec 21, 2022
@anathema_device @mmasnick That would be so wonderful and something to look forward to.
Show threadAnathema DeviceDec 21, 2022

@mmasnick great article again, Mike.

Pity your resident trolls make the comments unusable :( Perhaps Santa will put something better for them to do in their stockings?

Show threadAlex KDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick
I love how you captured the Fediverse thought process, I am definitely considering Step 3, making my own instance, I just need to come up with my domain name haha.
Show threadGojira1000Dec 21, 2022
@mmasnick I've been watching that with some interest. There seems to be a contingent of "users" that have either been trained into the role of captive audience/clout-chasing or who are scared (or lazy) about learning something new.
Show threadWeltzeitgeistDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick #mustread @larsweisbrod
Show threadJohn BaileyDec 21, 2022

@mmasnick

Thinking is hard and intimidating.

Most people want someone else to do it for them.

Your piece is bang-on.

Show threadaustralia.etcDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick I think this past year has had a whole lot of people thinking about their data freedom and being ‘owned’ by for-profit social media companies. Imagine making phone calls that are interrupted randomly by adverts that also listen to what you are saying and which get in the way of actual conversation. This is the thing (among many) which has caused me and others to run away from it as fast as I can! #mastodon 
Show threadsuldrew 🚲🏳️‍🌈Dec 21, 2022
@mmasnick Looking at various people promoting post and hive and such and all I can say is "lol good luck"
Show threadDoctor MemoryDec 21, 2022
@suldrew @mmasnick in the immortal words of George W Bush, “There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”
Show threadTorbjörn BjörkmanDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick The line "Perhaps I’m biased (note: I am biased) " is great, but also very wrong here. And as much as I love my sarcasm served deadpan... isn't it really: "I already studied this for yonks, became an expert and made up my mind while you lot were still soiling your online diapers" ...?
Show threadאייל 🏴Dec 21, 2022
@mmasnick I think this is the toot you mentioned:
https://vmst.io/@vmstan/109292004515711386
Chairman Toot :veri_purp: (@[email protected])

The four stages of Mastodon user: * what’s a Mastodon * I feel lost and alone how does this work * oh wow this is actually pretty cool * I’m an instance admin now

vmst·io
Show threadrustyDec 21, 2022

@mmasnick I could write a thesis about that. About habitual thinking and how it traps in you in well, your comfortable ways of thinking and doing.

Actuallyl, I have.

Show threadJeffrey T. DavisDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick Maybe not the most important feature, but a clear issue for Mastodon and similar: verification. It's valuable for readers and for civic info. Self-verification has many pitfalls that I won't spend time on because, simply, I think it misses the point. When I'm reading and see that my mayor has posted something, I want *someone else* to say "yes, checks out". I don't want to do the homework myself and I don't want to count on public figures having bothered to do so or not.
Show threadJeffrey T. DavisDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick For that, a central trusted authority is a feature not a bug. That can work well in tandem with an open, decentralized protocol, but it'll need revenue and a way to get there from here. I don't think we've got that figured out.
Show threadDavidDec 22, 2022
@mmasnick you're preaching to the choir here. ;-)
Show threadLaurie BrunnerDec 22, 2022
@mmasnick Great article. When is techdirt going to add a Mastodon link button?
Show threadMike Masnick ✅Dec 22, 2022
@Twizznit all in good time. all in good time.
Show threadChuck, just ChuckDec 21, 2022
@mmasnick, normies don’t care about this kind of thing, they just want it to work, without putting in any effort.
Only techies care about this kind of thing.
Show threadRicardoDec 22, 2022
@mmasnick maybe you've covered it in a previous article, but I would be interested in learning more about how content moderation works here and how it compares to a centralized system.
Show threadJen AndreDec 22, 2022

@mmasnick
The move to centralized services has been primarily driven by user experience. Less choices, less work to get the use case I want accomplished. That's why

Many of us remember the early internet which was totally decentralized, protocol-driven.Your gmail example is a good one. Designing a decentralized user experience that has less friction than a controlled one is very hard and frankly if it's a choice to do the easier thing vs something that is slightly harder but offers more flexibility, they will choose the first unless there is some extremely compelling driver