GeoffNov 25, 2022
Jeff Jarvis
With Twitter's collapse, funders should start helping build up federated discourse: supporting development of better security, of moderation aids, of proposals for affordances welcoming to Black Twitter and other communities. Stop thinking top down. Start thinking emergent.
Stop thinking about how to help newspapers. Start thinking about how to help communities and culture speaking for themselves. This is a place to start.
Nov 25, 2022 at 1:54pmWeb
Show threadJeff JarvisNov 25, 2022
For example: @alex is seeing security vulnerabilities in this Fediverse; foundations should fund development to close them.
Better yet: @shengokai makes forceful arguments for affordances necessary for the community of Black Twitter; foundations should fund that development.
Developers - e.g., @blaine & @davew - will gather 'round needs and ideas that are well-defined. Foundations and philanthropists can thereby support sustainable development of public discourse.
Show threadJeff JarvisNov 25, 2022
@alex @shengokai @blaine @davew And, no, I don't mean that foundations should fund instances--that that's fine; part of the idea of journa.host is to help community journalism support community conversation. No, I mean that foundations & philanthropists should support development: add to the open-source code bases of ActivityPub (& Scuttlebutt & Bluesky) to provide sustainable alternatives to the centralized, corporatized century of mass media & its successor, the attention economy online.
Show threadJeff JarvisNov 25, 2022
@alex @shengokai @blaine @davew Funders all t he time worry about the sustainability of what they fund. Well, as the Fediverse--not to mention Linux, WordPress, et al--demonstrate, open-source development is sustainable. Contribute to the greater whole and thereby support no end of enterprises that can make use of the functionality and networks that result. I hear that major news funders are meeting in January to debate joint strategy. They should--they must--adjust that strategy for federation!
Show threadDamon KiesowNov 25, 2022

@jeffjarvis

Pitch it as “community collaboration infrastructure and sustainability” not “federation” if necessary.

Show threadChandersNov 25, 2022
@dkiesow @jeffjarvis +1 to that. Use the discourse they know.
Show threadMirishuliNov 25, 2022
@dkiesow @jeffjarvis I like this phrasing much better too.
Show threadStrypeyNov 25, 2022

@jeffjarvis
> Well, as the Fediverse--not to mention Linux, WordPress, et al--demonstrate, open-source development is sustainable.

I agree with your overall point and you give some good examples of open source developing going well, but a word of caution. There are also plenty of stories of it not going some well. Chandler is an infamous one, where one rich guy threw a lot of money into kickstarting development but it still failed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandler_%28software%29

(1/)

Chandler (software) - Wikipedia

Show threadStrypeyNov 25, 2022

@jeffjarvis I think Baldur Bjarnason nailed the key reason for successes and failures in his new book; software is an ongoing social process, not a manufactured widget (as Musk is learning):

> Software is the insights of the development team made manifest. Software has no life on its own but exists as a kind of cyborg simultaneously in the programmers and the code. To reuse Donna Haraway’s words, software is simultaneously fiercely material and irreducibly imaginary

https://softwarecrisis.baldurbjarnason.com/

Out of the Software Crisis: Systems-Thinking for Software Projects

Available in PDF and EPUB

Show threadStrypeyNov 25, 2022

@jeffjarvis
> For example: @alex is seeing security vulnerabilities in this Fediverse

Be great if you could link to some examples of Alex doing that, I'm keen to know more.

Show threadDave Winer ☕️Nov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis -- beautiful. great to see you make the case for this.
Show threadcostrikeNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis Huzzah!
Show threadrobpennoyerNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis Federation is the way.
Show threadDr Jim RawsonNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis Are there specific non-profit organizations that foundations could support across the Fediverse to advance the issues you raise? Thanks
Show threadJeff JarvisNov 25, 2022
@DrJimRawson Many. I'd start with those that support news and journalism as they putatively care about the quality and value of public discourse in a democracy -- more, I hope, than the field and craft of journalism and industry of news, per se.
Show threadStrypeyNov 25, 2022

Good question @DrJimRawson . The way funding tends to happen in non-commercial open source development is that funding organizations serve as rain barrels. Funders drop rain dollars into those barrels, and they give as many projects groups a drink as they can, depending how much rain has fallen that year. In a sense, it doesn't matter which open source org funds go to, as long as those funds they're clearly earmarked for fediverse development.

(1/2)

@jeffjarvis @vicuzumeri

Show threadStrypeyNov 25, 2022

One approach would be to talk to the developers of fediverse software, past and present,@vicuzumeri
(most of them are here somewhere), and ask which organizations they got funding through. Some of the funders I'm aware of include NLNet:
https://nlnet.nl/propose/

... and the Next Generation Internet fund in the EU:
https://www.ngi.eu/

There's a list of resources here about funding free code, assembled by folks active here:
https://codeberg.org/teaserbot-labs/delightful-funding/

@DrJimRawson @jeffjarvis @vicuzumeri

NLnet; Apply for a grant

Show threadVic UzumeriNov 25, 2022

@strypey @DrJimRawson @jeffjarvis

All good ideas. I am just some rando guy in Toronto, so my ideas are just that ... ideas.

But if just 2 or 3 connected movers and shakers got organized (that may already be happening), the problem is not a particularly difficult one.

The money should be available. The motivation in the tech industry is palpable. I'm betting there are some top flight devs and designers that would consider projects in this space to be Missions from God (in the Blues Brothers sense).

Show threadDidiQNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis Do you know if the Bot Sentinel alternative to Twitter that Christopher Bouzy is planning would follow this approach?
Show threadTheTruthNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis You are a funny old man. Should I call you black knight?
Show threadShannonNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis We could make this sort of the true public square everyone seems to think we need. But we need some sort of non-governmental way of doing it. Not sure how... we can all donate to our respective servers to keep them going. And like any community, we can volunteer to help. They need moderators as an example.
Show threadMacCruiskeenNov 25, 2022
@wasootch @jeffjarvis the thing about a public square is that it is owned, directly or indirectly, by the public that uses it. No privately owned space can really be a complete substitute for that. ‘Social media’ is not the public square, and never has been. FB, Twitter, etc., are just feedlots that exist to harvest value from the users. Even Mastadon is essentially a lot of tiny fiefdoms.
Show threadVic UzumeriNov 25, 2022

@jeffjarvis

I would suggest approaching the leaders of successful open source ecosystems for guidance and possibly talent.

Apache Foundation. Linux Foundation. Hyperledger Foundation. Maybe also Github (aka Microsoft).

They have been down parts of this road already and become successful. I am sure that there are some experts who are at least slightly aware of the issues & threats facing social media and would offer to help.

Just my $0.00002

Show threadBert LatamoreNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis I agree with most of this except your suggestion that we stop worrying about funding newspapers. Uncreated reporting -- e.g. Twitter, Facebook, et. Al. -- is not a replacement for the curated newspaper that focuses on accurate reporting of facts and of what actually happened. It isn't perfect -- nothing done by humans is -- but it is vastly better than social media where you never know if what you are reading is true or a blatant lie and too much of the "news" is really propaganda.
Show threadStrypeyNov 25, 2022

@BertL I agree with you about funding media organizations that employ journalists, but...

> you never know if what you are reading is true or a blatant lie and too much of the "news" is really propaganda.

... is just as accurate of most of them as it is of social media. For example, have a look through all the stories here about Mastodon and the fediverse from edited publications:

https://pad.disroot.org/p/fediverse-on-the-web

You've been here long enough to recognize that most of them are garbage.

@jeffjarvis

Disroot pads

Show threadJeff JarvisNov 25, 2022
@BertL I didn't say to stop funding but corporate newspapers should be finding their own paths to sustainability, long since. And there's something else and new to support and encourage here.
Show threadRabbitPelletsNov 25, 2022

@jeffjarvis Now that we're awake - time for action.

Mocking the Tesla idiot is fun & all, but time to show we actually have a leg up on him.

Oh, and start with the basics. A home.

Show threadMullstaineNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis Twitter’s collapse??? What?
Show threadDorotheaLasterNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis And let the church say Amen!
Show threadWayne the Linux GuyNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis Stop telling me what to think. Now that I got that off my chest, I can reveal I'm joking of course and a huge fan of TWIG and love hearing your educated opinions on tech, journalism and political correctness.
Show threadTio_StephenNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis sound concept
Show thread✊🏾WiseGuyEddieNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis
WORD!
Show threadkittkindNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis hard to support local newspapers that don't exist or owned by a monopoly. Sad
Show threadShoq 🌿Nov 25, 2022

@jeffjarvis

𝗦𝘁𝗮𝗿𝘁 𝗧𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗘𝗺𝗲𝗿𝗴𝗲𝗻𝘁 will be the first t-shirt I offer from our new instance's merch page :)

Show threadMatildaNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis “Start thinking emergent” 🤩🤩 Music to my ears. Yes, ma’am!
Show threadJeff YangNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis Defintiely have seen some pushback out there against changing Mastodon to reflect the influx of Twitfugees. But demographic growth and change demand evolution of platforms just as they demand evolution of nation-states. There have been people saying “oh, they should just create their own instance with its own rules if they need something different”; that’s a recipe for segregation and online confederacy, not federation 😬
Show threadJeff YangNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis I do think it’ll be interesting to see what happens when Tumblr federates with Mastodon though—I suspect any entity that has big enough footprint and resources will inevitably play a big role in the platform’s evolution and force change—while causing backlash at the same time. A single large platform joining will be very different in impact from a disaggregated influx of individual members.
Show threadDDimetrodonNov 26, 2022

@originalspin @jeffjarvis 1/2 Counterpoint: the fediverse was home to everyone who was marginalized in every other mainstream platform before, and they deserve to not have their established norms wiped out by an influx of new users.

As it is I'm struggling with how some of the most basic courtesies outlined in this guide https://github.com/joyeusenoelle/GuideToMastodon are so often either innocently overlooked or disdainfully dismissed are not being adopted by the #NewHere. Part of that is there aren't enough old

GitHub - joyeusenoelle/GuideToMastodon: An increasingly less-brief guide to Mastodon

An increasingly less-brief guide to Mastodon. Contribute to joyeusenoelle/GuideToMastodon development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub
Show threadDDimetrodonNov 26, 2022

@originalspin @jeffjarvis 2/2 guard to individually remind all the new folks that there are some established norms that maybe they should be aware of. And people are too used to jumping in first, researching later.

I'm not even referring to CWs - those standards vary wildly over the site and the linked guide includes "Eye contact" which I personally find extreme, YMMV. But basic things like the need and expectation of alt-text descriptions for all images, that #accessibility should be inherent.

Show threadJeff JarvisNov 26, 2022
@DDimetrodon @originalspin I am not saying that the existing norms should be abandoned; they should be respected. I was quickly taught to provide alt text and I am. I am saying that many folks coming here also have valuable perspectives and needs that should also be respected. Each bring value and in that discourse norms are renegotiated; that is a constant process. I hope there will be resources to do more for all (e.g., deal with security).
Show threadJeff YangNov 26, 2022
@DDimetrodon @jeffjarvis Same. I do alt text all the time now since the platform makes it so easy and provides the reminders for you. But advocating for things like quote toots and better discovery (of people and toots) shouldn’t be seen as a threat—more of a “yes, and…” attitude along with the courtesy orientations would be both welcome and welcoming.
Show threadDDimetrodonNov 26, 2022
@jeffjarvis @originalspin I see your point, but I've also seen so many marginalized spaces go through the same abuse of warm and open welcomes to all (see: the basic reverse UNO of "if all POVs are welcome then my bigotry should be fine!") that I'm just very skittish about blaming said marginalized spaces for being reluctant to embrace newbies yet again with the same fervor.
Show threadMatt SchwartzNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis I personally don’t think the #fediverse should be opposed to open and honest commercial support. With a proper charter and rules of separation it would be beneficial. I would sponsor a topical server related to my small side biz. I just don’t know where to find people interested in building and running it.
Show threadStan FletcherNov 25, 2022
@randomschmoe @jeffjarvis I think there are numerous opportunities for instances to make money by providing complimentary services and benefits to its members. The beauty of it all is that if a resident isn’t happy with the services — or a better deal is offered elsewhere — they can move whenever they want. Competition between instances will make the Fediverse advance and grow as the market disctates.
Show threadEd Yother ​Nov 25, 2022
@IrwinFletcher0 @randomschmoe @jeffjarvis I guarantee that as soon as an instance figures out how make money by offering services, they will also figure out how to make it harder to "go somewhere else".
Show threadStan FletcherNov 25, 2022
@edyother @randomschmoe @jeffjarvis Yeah, I’m sure you are right about that. Good thing is that if it’s a Mastadon-powered instance that will probably be difficult to do since it will violate the open source license agreement.
Show threadAmol Nov 26, 2022
@IrwinFletcher0 @randomschmoe @jeffjarvis As far as I know only your following list gets transferred but your post doesn't get transferred.
Show threadJeff McNeillNov 26, 2022
@IrwinFletcher0 @randomschmoe @jeffjarvis Markets are not the way to think about public discourse. That is what brought us the decline and destruction of Twitter. Check out Polyani and Habermas for some critical thought on this.
Show threadLeo 💪🏼Nov 26, 2022
@IrwinFletcher0 @randomschmoe @jeffjarvis agreed. There seems to be great opportunities to make the platform attractive for “server” competition, if you will. At the moment there is little incentive (that I see) to favor my account living in ine server over the other (besides member affinity)
Show threadAlekNov 25, 2022

@jeffjarvis Totally agree. Also public funders (I'm from Europe).
But I don't think it has to be a choice between top down vs community driven and emergent. #Fediverse is a great case where the mission-driven approach, proposed by Mazzucato, could be deployed. Mission is a shared vision with clear and shared goals, but which can be achieve through a broad range of varied, not necessarily coordinated action.

The shared vision bit is crucial. Especially that we are already seeing strong disagreements on core functionalities and features of the ecosystem. Hopefully some funder will also fund citizen panels and other forms of participatory governance.

Show threadPJ "Vote Green" CoffeyNov 25, 2022

@jeffjarvis don't mind me, just curating. I'll delete if unwelcome!

#mastodon #MastodonFuture #moderation #ModerationIsWork #twitterMigration #BlackTwitter #BlackMastodon #SocialMedia

Show threadMindSpeak5440Nov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis Twitter collapse? Evidence please.
Show threadTimothée Muller ⏚Nov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis I support the fact that foundation or big financial group shouldn't finance mastodon or the fediverse. But what troubles me is, with the surge of new members from Twitter, are private donations gonna be enough to sustain instances?
New ideas around decentralised funding are gonna be necessary as well I think.
Show threadCraig NewmarkNov 25, 2022
@jeffjarvis Jeff, is there a US 501c3 or similar? If not, and you have an idea, please tell me as you see fit. Thanks!
Show threadAram Zucker-ScharffNov 25, 2022

@craignewmark @jeffjarvis Are you thinking about a way to investigate and help others understand efforts or a specific platform support 501c3? I dunno about Jeff, but the more I see the strain that Mastodon instances admins' are under, I have been thinking more and more about the need to compensate them for their work to keep this corner of social platforms more maintainable.

I worry that we're replicating the mistake many make about moderation not having value.

Show threadAram Zucker-ScharffNov 25, 2022
@craignewmark @jeffjarvis Or perhaps one of the existing entities you donate to might take this up @craignewmark ? I can't think of one single thing that would prob help at least the fediverse more. I see @danhon is also talking about the costs of moderation and the impact effective moderation in the fediverse has on the long term trust people might have in the platform.
Show threadCraig NewmarkNov 25, 2022
@Chronotope @jeffjarvis @danhon
I'm on it, talking to some folks who are much smarter than me regarding both Mastodon and the nonprofit world. Need to put my affairs in order.
Show threadAram Zucker-ScharffNov 25, 2022
@craignewmark @jeffjarvis @danhon Can't wait to hear what you've got cooking there then! I hope it comes in the form of something I can contribute / donate to.