Big rumblings in the expansion of the #Fediverse have been happening recently.
#Tumblr has already promised to implement #ActivityPub (the protocol Mastodon uses), which will mean you can follow Tumblr accounts from here and vice versa. And today we a learning that #Flickr is also considering it!
This will be a massive expansion, which obviously carries some uncertainties, but I, for one, welcome our new federation partners.
This is the way the internet is supposed to work.
@kir @john I know you're being sarcastic, in that this is a inadvertent side effect of what Elon is doing, but one of the complaints he had about Twitter and what he wanted to do to it, in all his rambling, was open the protocol up so that presumably it would work something like this.
So his nonsense causing this to happen everywhere but Twitter is kind of funny.
@john okay, I've been thinking about this a bit more, and while this is exciting, here's what I'm concerned about:
What if people say, "Why join Mastodon when I can just join Tumblr?"
And then at some point Tumblr decides to defederate like Google did with XMPP, leaving fragmented communities behind.
I think the Fediverse is more stable since it's got active communities who are aware of why they're here, but still something to keep in mind... 🦕
@badri While it's a risk, I think we're probably okay because Tumblr is a poor replacement for Twitter. Discussion is hard, the culture is weird and hilariously unprofessional.
I'm hoping at leat one more big player jumps in, which will give the thing more equilibrium.
We'll see!
@john ah yes, that's true. It may work the other way then; people will think "joining Mastodon is even better since I can then follow Tumblr people too!"
Would be interesting to see how two large networks interact. There isn't much overlap between Tumblr and Flickr, but let's see who else jumps in 🤪
I'm still being cautiously optimistic; like you said let's see 🤞
@pammystarr @katedegerdon @john
That already exists: https://masto.host offers managed Mastodon hosting ($40/mo for ~500 users, seems a bit high but not unreasonable to me), but right now they are so swamped they're not taking new subscriptions. Heck of a problem to have as a business.
I do have some questions about how well Mastodon (the mainline server) scales, and if there are opportunities for optimization that could make managed hosting cheaper per user.
@kadin @pammystarr @katedegerdon Other implementations of ActivityPub are more efficient, so I understand. Pleroma for one.
Still, I think masto.host offers a good deal, and their support is top-notch.
Toot.io also offers managed hosting, but it's starts pretty high: https://toot.io/mastodon_hosting.html
@john @kadin @pammystarr @katedegerdon
I think Pleroma is the way to go. Its Elixir-based scalable architecture, design and compatibility surpasses Mastodon, but it does need more love on the web UI side of things.
The Metatext app connects seamlessly to it as well as Mastodon.
@rsalas @kadin @pammystarr @katedegerdon
Pleroma's web-facing aspect could do with some work, yes. But also, is there a reason Pleroma instances seem to be run by mostly trollish dickheads?
@john @rsalas @kadin @pammystarr @katedegerdon
Just a different culture. Mastodon very much has a left-wing slant, so those on the Fedi without that slant tend to set up Pleroma instances. But there's nothing inherent about the technology that makes it that way.
The beauty of the Fediverse is complete free association. If you feel underrepresented, start your own instance. If you don't want to interact with a community, block that instance.
@john @rsalas @kadin @pammystarr @katedegerdon
We needn't worry about those people merely existing, they can do what they want and we have the tools to handle it on our end, just like how they have the tools to carve out their own spaces.
@piccolbo @john @rsalas @kadin @pammystarr @katedegerdon
It'd work like blocked accounts on Twitter. You'd see what you don't have specifically blocked and what hasn't specifically blocked you.
@piccolbo @tomat0 @john @rsalas @pammystarr @katedegerdon
I'm a bit unclear on this as well, but I *think* that users on the mutually-blocking instances won't see posts originating from the other instance, so they end up with different threads. Not sure how else it would work, TBH.
Sidebar: I noticed today (when viewing one of @john's posts from SDF, vs a friend using vmst.io), that we were seeing different versions of the thread, presumably due to delays in propagation across the network.
@john @kadin @pammystarr @katedegerdon
I've noticed that too, but I wouldn't necessarily equate the community with the software it's built upon. There is no scarcity of dickish trolls regardless of the medium.
If anything, they may have chosen Pleroma early on mainly because it could run on cheaper and more limited hardware with ease.
@john
This is Reddit gossip so take it with a *very* large chunk of salt, but there are claims that:
> The founder of Pleroma, Lain, programed Pleroma to be harder to block from other instances than a comparable Mastodon Instance. Those blocked Pleroma instance Admins tell me their posts sometimes get through to the Mastodon servers.
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/Pleroma/comments/yu8xof/pleromas_rebased_fork_vs_akkoma_fork/
I don't know what that means from a technical perspective, though. How is an instance "hard to block"? 🤷♂️
@john Top reason is that Pleroma had a prominent TERF involved with development for a while, so the Pleroma community self-selected for people who are ok with transphobia. (Discussing this often attracts sea lions who claim that technology is neutral, bemoaning cancel culture.)
For people who like the technology but want a community that might enforce a code of conduct, consider the hard fork Akkoma instead: https://coffee-and-dreams.uk/development/2022/06/24/akkoma.html
@Richstjr @piccolbo @skyfaller @john and there's plenty of alternatives that aren't developed by TERF scum.
I don't have the luxury to be apolitical.
The pleroma thing predates Alex Gleason.. by several years..
Kinda post gamergate really.
It's a bit like it's the community of developers that came in that wave of fediverse expansion
@skyfaller @john people who claim that technology is neutral need to study history, and shut the fuck up.
Here's someone smart saying 37 years ago that technology is a tool of domination: http://tech.mit.edu/V105/N16/weisen.16n.html
@john
> Pleroma's web-facing aspect
... doesn't matter. It's an artifact of a much older 'verse that you can be appreciate for its olde world charm. Or...
... you can toss it aside and hook up a Pleroma server to literally any other web app you like, including the default Mastodon web apps themselves, Pinafore, Soapbox, Glitch-lily etc. You could fork and update abandoned ones like Halcyon or Brutaldon if you're into that. Bonfire is coming soon...
@kadin
> The web UI should ideally be just like any other client... using the same APIs,
The ActivityPub spec actually has a server>client API, but I'm not sure if it's ever been implemented. Mastodon has its own bespoke API, which Pleroma implemented too.
> potentially not even running on the same server.
I've been using pinafore.social as my web app, which is an instance on Pinafore running on a different server from mastodon.nzoss.nz.
@rsalas @john
It appears that there's already an ongoing effort to bring a #Mastodon-like UI to the #Pleroma backend, at least if I am understanding this project's goals correctly:
https://lily-is.land/infra/glitch-lily/
I feel like I'm going to need a quick reference guide to keep track of the various software forks that have sprung up, though: #Glitch, #Hometown, #Akkoma, Pleroma Rebased, etc.
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