daanpower
Nick @ The Linux ExperimentFrench authorities declare the use of Microsoft Office and Google Docs illegal in schools and education markets, as they don’t follow GDPR and might disturb later competition by making students used to these proprietary solutions.
Looks like it only applies to Office365 online and Google docs, not the installed MS Office suite. The fact that these companies are US based means there is no guarantee that student’s data isn’t accessed by the US government, which seems to be the main issue.
ratatop
Amsel/Professor Pootis@glaber @thelinuxEXP I already do this if we use MS Office, but we use google docs mostly and I can't really get around that.
Pol Roca
Keith Milner@polroc
That's a really difficult one.
MS Office is bad because it traps you in a dreadful ecosystem through the myth of "compatibility" which they reinforce by making their products deliberate obscure.
Google doesn't do that, but they do trap people in their ecosystem by making it actually bloody good, and difficult to replicate in any other way.
@ProfessorPootis @glaber @thelinuxEXP
@polroc
Of course, as tools like Next loud catch up, that may change. But I find it hard to completely criticise a service that's popular because it's good and that is incentivised to continue to improve.
@ProfessorPootis @glaber @thelinuxEXP
Of course, as tools like Next loud catch up, that may change. But I find it hard to completely criticise a service that's popular because it's good and that is incentivised to continue to improve.
@ProfessorPootis @glaber @thelinuxEXP
Oh, I know, I know.
Personally, I switched to LibreOffice and storing my documents in XML open formats long ago.
I am a translator, I work with CAT software like OmegaT, and I do really value the flexibility of all the open/free aspects of these tools and formats. At least for offline edition.
However, as you mention, the features of the Google Suite are extremely valuable for corporate, team work, and hardly replicable in any other fashion. Their win, may we like it or not! 😉
@polroc
What I truly do not understand is companies continuing to use MS 360, even switching to it from Google Workspace. It's a truly awful and second rate product from my experience, and everyone.I know who is forced to use it complains about it.
What I truly do not understand is companies continuing to use MS 360, even switching to it from Google Workspace. It's a truly awful and second rate product from my experience, and everyone.I know who is forced to use it complains about it.
Joel de Bruijn@Majik @polroc I dont promote neither, but because of completely different reasons, stemming from difference in business model :
- MS: applications + services for Office collaboration, security, OS and Identity. Trapped because its a vast convenient ecosystem, with propietary fileformats being a minor actor but monopolism and data-sovereignty are the main concerns.
To replace it one needs not only LibreOffice and NextCloud but couple of more things.
https://m365maps.com/Microsoft-365-Education-A5.htm
- Google: everything must happen in the browser to accomodate mayority of users who need "just simple mail, storage, wordprocessing and spreadsheeting".
But using student and staffdata to profile people and using that in their vast advertisement ecosystem is the main concern. They promise not to do that but they mix up services in which a person is a mere customer and a business/school worker. So one cant enforce them not use data from one context in another.
Mahesh Shantaram 
@Majik @polroc Not me. After 15 years of using Google's tools, last year I got access to Microsoft's entire Office suite thanks to my university. I was wowed by the superiority of every product, e.g. MS PowerPoint blasts G'Slides out of the game. But then, Outlook is a shit email client for someone who's comfortably settled into Gmail for two decades.
darkblade@glaber @thelinuxEXP Or ONLYOFFICE
GMate8@glaber @thelinuxEXP for me OnlyOffice is easier to use and more logical 🤷♂️
Chris Brown@thelinuxEXP This is when OpenOffice or Collabora could fill a need. But would require the school system to create the host.
NiceMicro@thelinuxEXP yeah, but this could easily apply to the installed MS Office suite, too... Last I checked (and I did, because at my work I use MS Office), it very much insists to log into an on-line account too.
And being proprietary 🗑️ , you can never be sure, what it actually uses its online capabilities for...
jkuester@jkuester @thelinuxEXP I do @nextcloud with @ONLYOFFICE for my family, and it took my mother 5 minutes to get familiar with how to make presentations. There are great alternatives!
Steve Stiles@thelinuxEXP
I would love to see people in the US more open to other alternatives. My kids were forced to use Google docs in school. Even after graduation they still use it even though there are better and free alternatives to it.
I would love to see people in the US more open to other alternatives. My kids were forced to use Google docs in school. Even after graduation they still use it even though there are better and free alternatives to it.
Anita na praialike what?
@anitanapraia Openoffice, LibreOffice are 2 of the most popular. I have used both and have not missed out on anything.
Antonio Santos 🇵🇹@captain_caveman @thelinuxEXP Schools need to comply with legislation and use software students with disabilities can use. Free alternatives are mediocre on accessibility.
Dave Lane 
🇳🇿@thelinuxEXP but this does open the door for locally hosted (by French-owned companies not subject to the US Cloud and Patriot acts!) or NC + OnlyOffice (or, if it catches up, CollaboraOffice)... Would love to see it. Would be great if it happened in NZ, too.
@thelinuxEXP by the way - there's another elephant in the room, which I think also applies in the EU: https://davelane.nz/explainer-digitech-risks-school-boards
GoodGoogleyGoogely@thelinuxEXP the ironic situation is I can imagine Chinese companies meeting the standard requirements and replacing Google documents and Microsoft word. But there's also a good chance that open source standards will generally service as adequate replacements. This is exciting news. Although I can imagine the government requiring services and serves to be based in the country so they will be permitted more ready access to user information.
@goodgoogleymoogely Chinese companies would also not comply with GDPR, and so not be allowed
Polychrome 
@thelinuxEXP I'm pleasantly surprised Microsoft hasn't killed offline Office yet.
Su Juánida, La Barovier ✍️✍️✍️@thelinuxEXP French public institutions have huge qualms towards MS and Google indeed. It can reach levels of paranoia in research institutions for these very reasons. They fear American using intelligence against them.
Alvan Rahimli@thelinuxEXP this is expected, as whole schools already rely on this and they wont change any time soon, telling excuses like adaptation will take time etc.
In these kinda establishments, something has to be forced by government or some entity, or they wont change anything, unfortunately.
James Hammond@thelinuxEXP This is interesting; because I work for a US Tech Company using 365 on UK Government Contracts. I have had to had my data (Mailbox etc) geolocated to a UK Datacentre & that seems to be enough security wise even though there is the Patriot act that would allow the US government access?
Alan@flexsite @thelinuxEXP they’re both part of five eyes anyway, so the data centre location is probably performative security
@titchyAlan @thelinuxEXP that makes sense. Thank you 👍
Xerz 💗@thelinuxEXP don’t worry about it, these days people only use web stuff anyway
Emelia@thelinuxEXP Oh, that's... less amazing. My school uses Microsoft services for everything, and I gotta say, it is not fun. Not only are the services barely functional, but the lack of privacy and security involved is really bad. I would much prefer if we could use open-source software, perhaps even stuff that we could self-host, so that we don't have Microsoft's prying eyes on all of our stuff.
Karl@thelinuxEXP I am waiting for my government to do the same, tired of using Microsoft products forced down my throat, sad it doesn't affect installed msoffice. Every school laptop I got I installed Linux on no matter if I was allowed or not. Use the office 365 online as I'm forced to.
Markus Feilner (has moved)@thelinuxEXP
In a very soontocome future there's no on-premise Office or similar anymore, that's MS strategy. And if you look at Win11, the "telemetry" is being pushed further, not into more compliance with european law.
In a very soontocome future there's no on-premise Office or similar anymore, that's MS strategy. And if you look at Win11, the "telemetry" is being pushed further, not into more compliance with european law.
clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛@thelinuxEXP All MS will be cloud before long.
Inuyashatoast@thelinuxEXP Wow that is amazing! Hopefully other countries follow
calc.exe@thelinuxEXP if students use cryptpad/only office/nextcloud that'd be amazing
élise 
@thelinuxEXP oh wow, let’s now hope they ban photoshop :blobcatsip:
Yoav Zack@thelinuxEXP finally, some light with this microsoft tunnel. This should have happened a long time ago!
@thelinuxEXP let's hope that turns into policy before the corporate lobbying machines mobilise.
@thelinuxEXP (and the gov't-corporate corruption engine returns the status quo)
Kaea 
@thelinuxEXP so much good things is happening in software environment lately
Ingo Kueper 🇺🇦@thelinuxEXP that is basically the status quo in Germany for the past years. It would be nice if they would invest in alternatives. Even if it is indirect through education and training.
People wouldn't be afraid of alternatives like nextcloud once they have used it.
From my perspective it is not enough to ban products from companies that make money with your data we should also start promoting alternatives.
Gianni Rosato@thelinuxEXP I hope this doesn’t mean schools switch en masse to local MS Office … would feel like a step in the wrong direction. Libreoffice FTW
@gianni yeah, technically they could buy MS Office license and be OK.
R. L. Dane 
Do they actually sell Office without a sub? It's getting so hard to buy *any* proprietary stuff without a subscription anymore. :(
Lukas Brausch@thelinuxEXP The right decision! In Germany, we could really learn a lot from this bold but necessary move.
Anton@thelinuxEXP to bad the US government seems to be clueless about this kind of stuff
Ric 
@Anton_1 @thelinuxEXP they are not clueless. They know exactly what they are doing.
@wck @thelinuxEXP still feel like the US government is not doing enough
Paul J Wege#FediLZ Mit Anlauf ...
LPS@thelinuxEXP it's almost like this was their plan;)
dieTasse has moved
sarah tonin 
@thelinuxEXP hmmm, no google docs ? i wonder what dtudents collaborating on work will use instead, being able to be multiple people editing a single file at the same time without needing to put mondy on it, is something all students generally want. Definitely better than what we had where 1 student only put everyone else's things in the document.
Mago27 🇪🇺🇨🇵🇺🇦🐧@thelinuxEXP Il était temps !