bram dingelstad 

It's the 2nd #GameDevHelpDeskWednesday ✨

🤔 Have a burning question about #GameDev, #GameDesign, #Programming, etc? Ask in this thread (publically, don't dm me 😅)

🧐 Game development veteran or otherwise experienced? Go into this thread and answer some questions?

Wanna generally help out? BOOST 🙌✨

I can help out with your #GodotEngine & general development & design questions 😊

Nov 16, 2022 at 8:30amWeb
Show threadGreen FoxNov 16, 2022

@bram re:#gamedesign
Is it okay to move WASD over one to ESDF as default player controls?

I realize of course this is an extremely subjective question. But I personally believe ESDF is a superior control. WASD was chosen to be comfortable with the left hand and to minimize rollover. IMHO: We are holding on to WASD for the wrong reasons and we need to give ESDF as alternate default controls.

It's faster to move from ASDF home row. And gives 3-5 additional keys reachable by the pinky.

Show threadGreen FoxNov 16, 2022
@bram
There might be a compromise here. Maybe asking players to try ESDF but giving them an alternate control profile if they refuse. But I really think that we should be driving players away from a key combination that was chosen based on the hardware limitations of the '90s.
Show threadbram dingelstad Nov 16, 2022
@greenfox also i really love the look of Eronoctosis, looks awesome 🤩
Show threadGreen FoxNov 16, 2022
@bram
Thank you! I just wrote the AI some of the network logic. But I'll tell the artists. Neither of them are on Mastodon yet.
Show thread+>eNov 16, 2022
@greenfox @bram esdf is compatible with qwerty and azerty, that's an advantage.
Hardware is still limited, most of the gaming keyboards are too expensive in most parts of the world so changing established defaults is tricky
Show threadbram dingelstad Nov 16, 2022

@greenfox Good question! I do agree with your general sentiment around ESDF being superior

However, this touches on the design of the accessbility of your game. In general its best to stick to standards because (new) players are likely familiar with them. It's a trade-off

I would recommend having two control schemes / setting presets: one with the familiar controls that the player can just start with & an additional expert/recommended schema

Perhaps a popup before/after beating the tutorial?

Show threadGreen FoxNov 16, 2022
@bram
I have been using ESDF in Halo MMC since it came out. I'll admit it's very hard to get used to. But trying to map ABXY+Dpad+4(triggers+bumpers)+2stickclicks to a mouse + the keys reachable by the left hand is so much easier with ESDF.
Show threadGreen FoxNov 16, 2022
@bram
The biggest hurdle to getting used to it is seeing on screen prompts. It says "R to reload" and then muscle memory tells you that's two keys away from your middle finger. But in ESDF that's a T.
I think this is solvable by drawing the home keys and indicating where you need to reach. Similar to how Nintendo switch solved there controller rotating problem of Joy-Cons. They used the four-leaf button clover.
Show threadowof gamesNov 16, 2022
@bram the note about accessibility is indeed a good point! all accessibility guides point towards remappable controls, and that would be a great solution if mixed with sensible presets (like a WASD preset and an ESDF preset). As a left-handed mouse user, for example, WASD or ESDF are equally uncomfortable. @greenfox
Show threadGreen FoxNov 16, 2022
@onefoxonewolf @bram I feel like at that point it is a different kind of "accessibility" problem. WASD is hyper accessable because everybody who plays games reaches for WASD first. But a left-handed mouse user probably also know to default to WASD. Just like a dvorak keyboard user knows to go cry in the corner.
But trying to teach the superior gospel of ESDF will confuse 100% of the beginner players. Even well versed beginner players.
Show threadGreen FoxNov 16, 2022
@onefoxonewolf @bram
I will point out though that I first realized ESDF was a viable alternative from Tribes2. In 2001.
http://www.sierrahelp.com/Documents/Manuals/Tribes_2_-_Manual.pdf (page 16)
ESDF was the default. Ahead of it's time in so many ways, I'd say.
Show threadWarrenayissNov 16, 2022
@greenfox @bram interesting idea, I'm used to the AZERTY keyboard but not all games' default key are ZSQD and often need to change the keys or change my keyboard to QWERTY. ESDF would eliminate this problem.
Show threadMuffinJetsNov 18, 2022
@greenfox @bram I'll have to give that a shot, never thought about that
Show threadJakub NerudaNov 16, 2022

@bram I have one game #ai related.

I did some math and I believe that FSMs are as powerful as behaviour trees (gen1), based on the fact that I can model building blocks of BTs (like selection and sequence nodes or success/fail/running statuses) by specific FSM patterns.

However I don't understand gen2 BTs, in particular the parallel nodes so I don't know if that statement holds for these as well.

Can anybody confirm/disprove?

Show threadFlo | Centi GamesNov 17, 2022
@bram thanks for taking your time answering many questions! My question is about Godot 4: They say don't use Godot 4 beta to ship games, but if I make a very small game and test thoroughly and everything works, there's no reason not to ship with the latest beta, right? I have only encountered a minor UI issue so far, otherwise everything seems fine and works well!